Going to upgrade my Flex build, help out?

[Lanson]

Hell yes he does, I'm going to get an order in for a pair, most likely today.

I'm a leaning a bit to the smaller ND65 4ohm for the pillars, because of the off-axis mounting intent. *edit just noticed the darn things are out of stock until mid-year...I guess that shuts them down.)

So, say we go with ND91's and the Vifa BC25SC06-05 http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-bc...eter--264-1028 , or Dayton ND20FB http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...eeter--275-035 , either are affordable and do-able in size and all that.

So, the center could be an ND105 http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...4-ohm--290-212 , or I could attempt to fit the ND140 http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...4-ohm--290-216 , and I can match them with the same tweeter as above for uniformity. Is there a known performance factor between either of those, any pitfalls of picking one over the other for center channel duty (when paired with a small tweet in a simple 1st order crossover high up?)

Also, noticed the ND90 and 91 are a bit different, and noticed that the ND90's Qts factor is pretty high. Does that work better in tiny boxes? I think the pillar will be unsealed in the end, but I could modify that. I'm not certain I could get much air space though if I seal.

Thanks y'all, big help

[Lanson]

Found out more about the 90 vs. 91, the 91 is for me. Ordering a pair of those, an ND105-4 for center, and ND20FB's x3 for all 3.

[Glenn]

Since you asked me to leave a suggestion, here is what I would recommend from my own experiences.

Parts Express:

Mids:

http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ne...ofer--264-1058
or
http://www.parts-express.com/faitalp...-ohm--294-1100

both of those drivers sound excellent for a budget build, both are "go to" drivers if I ever needed inexpensive.

Tweets:

http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ox...eter--264-1002
or
http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ot...-ohm--264-1122

Both of those tweeters will do the job with the ring radiator taking the upper hand IMO, but neither is a slouch.

Madisound:

Mids:

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-3-full-range/
or
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-2-full-range/

I have heard both of these and the Scan has the upper hand in midrange detail IMO, love that little guy.

Tweets:

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-dome-tweeter/
or
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-dome-tweeter/
or
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...weeter-4-ohms/

All three of these tweets are pretty solid with the Morel having a leg up on all of them. I like the Morel sound and most everyone with a properly tuned setup running them falls in love with them.

[Lanson]

So Glenn, those would be the pillars, and what would timbre-match for the center with each option? I'm guessing the Scan 10F and 5F are meant to pair together. In the case of initially picking the Daytons, it came from picking the center channel, and then matching the pillars. The center, with its funky shaped metal in there, looks like it would work better with a 4-5" mid with a neo or at least very narrow magnet structure. The 10F (the full-range version) looks like it could go. Not sure of the others.

I noticed that what will happen is, in some sizes (say 2-3") Vifa/Peerless will use a metal cone, and in a larger 4-5" for the center, they'll switch to a different material. In the intended operating range, I'm not certain it will be an audible difference but it was something I have been trying to match up.

[Hic]

Ideally, stay with same cone material [ paper ], etc..,

[Lanson]

Ideally, stay with same cone material [ paper ], etc..,

Exactly, but it is silly how they'll change in the same brand and line. Example, I'll look at Platinum level Tymphany, and they'll go from metal to wood fibre.

I'll work in the Peerless / Vifa / Scan options, I do believe them to be better than Dayton as well. I'll re-work some options.



In other news, I pulled the Vibe Space 6 set out of the box and started tinkering with it. If anybody ever asks, it CAN be bi-amped but it isn't in the manual, it is in an addendum included in the box. The set feels substantial, and looks to be made out of really high quality materials. However, I hear a harshness in the mid that comes about really strong, when the thing is crossed over anywhere I would feel I would typically want a 2-3" mid. I played with cross points on the MS8 (which can take a while), and found that it wants something in the 500hz range, with a really steep slope because there's honking and glaring type effects in the 300's or so. Not a really good option. When bi-amping, the crossover is still high-passing at 2.5K on that mid, so for my purposes the crossover is useless. That said, the "hyper tweeter" running with the mid do make a great tweeter overall, running at the crossover's 2.5k. The tweeter on the set is smooooooth, and airy. Also, I didn't play with the woofer but it feels nice. I think I'd like to shove 8's in the doors and get aggressive for fun, so these will probably stay boxed up.

[Lanson]

OK this has been fun. I've decided that I need to stay small for those pillars, but a 2 to 2.5" mid will work (with tweeter, off axis.) Here's where I'm at:

Fountek option
FR58EX for the pillars http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-2-full-range/ $35.80 for 2
FR89EX for the center http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...l-range-4-ohm/ $49.60 for 1
tweeters X3 will be Vifa http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-dome-tweeter/ $43.20 for 3
$128.60 (before I figure out crossovers)


Vifa Paper cone (I like the paper sound in the car, nice and warm)
TC6FC for the pillars https://www.parts-express.com/vifa-t...-ohm--264-1124 $29.60 for 2
TC9FD for the center https://www.parts-express.com/vifa-t...ofer--264-1062 $11.85 for one
tweeters X3 will be Dayton ND20FB https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...eeter--275-035 $42.60
$84.05 before crossovers
Zaph had some plots on these, and wow they look awesome. Probably end up going with them for the price and performance.

[Lanson]

I went forward with the Dayton ND setup, after contemplating the options for quite some time. I plotted out all the drivers and realized that while efficiency is down, I like the other upsides.

If I don't love them, I'll probably pull it out and go with the Scans in a higher end setup. I'd also consider those neat AP mids with the super tweet.

[Lanson]

Scratch that, I cancelled the ND setup before it shipped, and decided on Dayton RS75-4's (with ND20FB's) for the pillars, and RS125-4 (with an ND20FB as well.) What ended up making this decision was the stencil work I was doing for the pillars to fit the ND's. I realized during my drawings and plan building that the depth and extra size overall of the ND91 makes for a bigger pillar pod than I'm willing to have. So I redrew a new stencil with the RS75 and tweeter, and ended up with a much better size, especially depth.

The RS75 is a good 1/2" less deep than the ND91-4. They won't go as low but they'll mate with any 8" midbass I'm interested in. Here's some shots of the first design with the ND91's






And this will be the RS75-4 and ND20FB setup, which is a lot smaller overall.




The real difference is the depth, which will be a full 1/2" less than the ND91 would be. This means I should be able to get the pods in flush with the A-pillar's original shape, or really close. I will cut into the pillar and nestle my design inside, as far deep as I can go.

The center channel will work out well with the RS125-4. I may just mod the factory panel, by cutting out the plastic in the center and fabbing from there. I'm thinking about doing this with 1/4" MDF mated to the factory parts.


I'm also re-starting the wiring phase, to handle a pair of drivers in the pillars. I'll be migrating to terminal blocks for the wiring, so changes will be easier in the future.


So just to illustrate (crudely!) how I plan on tackling the doors,

In this pic you have the cutout in red, I'm planning on. Basically I would cut on what is a fake line in the door panel itself, and looks like it was two pieces to start with somewhat.


This cut would then be covered with a piece of wood in the shape of this blue line or close


And on the backside, note the cutline in red and the outer blue mark vs. what was the inner in the previous pic. This will be the wood shape that "grips" the factory plastic panel. The inner part will nut/bolt to the plastic panel, and the outer will be a removable grille, with panel clips to hold it firmly in place. Speaker cloth will cover the shape.



For midbass, I'm leaning hard toward the RS225-4, but I'm not sure if I want the new paper cone, or the original metal. The paper has better extension but beaming will be right around 1400hz, so the extra extension may not matter. The metal cone tops around 1k or so as well before some breakup. Thing is, those RS75's should be happy at 400-500hz @ 24dB/oct, so there should be no problems getting full frequency response from the 3-way setup.

[Lanson]

Thanks all for the advice and I do appreciate it. I am starting a build log now that I have a direction and some speakers coming my way, so here's the link:

http://www.caraudiojunkies.com/showt...d-Flex&p=13516