Checking build before I press the buy button. Final and complete.

[Original wis]

So I've done a lot of research and have learned a lot during this process but before I press the buy button I wanted to see if anyone can see anything wrong with this build.

Enclosure:
Box size: 33 X 15.75 X 25
Up firing, port to the back
Yield: 4.5 cube
Tune: 32 Hz
Material: 3/4 birch
Number of Baffles: 2
Port area: 4 * 13.5 or 54sq in.
Port area per foot: 11.95 sq in. I know 16 is recommended but I used vent air velocity to calculate instead.
Port Length: 23

Subwoofers:
4 X 10" Sundown E10 V3 D2
Power rating 500 RMS per sub
TS:
Resistance (Re): 4.0 Ω
Resonance Frequency (Fs): 32.2 Hz
Equivalent Volume (Vas): 19.4 L
Electrical Q Factor (Qes): 0.38
Mechanical Q Factor (Qms): 4.76
Total Q Factor (Qts):0.35
Force Factor (BL): 20.2 NA
Moving Mass (incl. Air Load) (Mms): 192.0 g
Suspension Compliance (Cms): 0.13 mm/N
Sensitivity: 84.2 dB 1w / 1m
Xmax: 14mm
Weight: 19 lb. each

Box Recommendations:
Ported: 1.0 cu ft
Displacement: 0.11 ft^3
Cutout Diameter: 8-7/8”
Outside Diameter: 10”
Depth: 5 5/8”
Recommended Tuning: 32hz
Recommended Port Area: 16 in^2

Power: Taramps Smart 3
Wiring: 1 ohm load

Electrical:
(It’s overkill but I’ll be prepared if/ when I want to go bigger.)
Alternator: Singer 320 amp, 200 amp at resting
Big 4 1/0 upgrade
Xs power D2400
2/0 run from front to rear around 17 – 20 ft (to prevent power loss during the transfer from front to back)
1/0 ground to engine block from alternator
1/0 ground to chassis for both batteries and amp each

Of course Ofc or nothing
300 amp fuses in the following places:
Alternator to battery
Battery to rear (5 inches from terminal)
Battery to rear (5 inches from rear AGM)
200 amp fuse from busbars to amp

So here's my thought process:
I figured out the max enclosure size first
Then I found as many options as possible to fit within that that wouldn't cost more than 1,000 dollars.
From those, I cut out any with an Fs closer to 40 than 30
Once I had those, I picked the ones with the highest excursion
From there, I picked the largest cone area
Finally, I picked what would safely run on 3k RMS

Honestly though, by the time I got to excursion and cone area, pretty much everything else had been eliminated for one reason or another. This build had the highest cone area and Xmax. The lowest Fs and weight actually, and pretty much destroyed anything else with the price point. I called Woofers Etc. and they gave me a deal on 4 of them for $585.00, no tax, free shipping.
I realize 3k is more than they can handle supposedly (Sundown underrating), but I'm thinking that I can set the gains to compensate for the extra power. Besides, won't need a bass knob for sure with this.

I also plan on having an equalizer in front as well as DSP in the back. The front because i want to be able to move frequencies while I'm traffic. Rear obviously to make sure the signals squeaky clean.

Second skin for the win!

I took a month to figure this out and I hope i didn't miss anything.

The graphs are included below as well.










Any thoughts?

Lewis King

[blockrocker]

I also plan on having an equalizer in front as well as DSP in the back. The front because i want to be able to move frequencies while I'm traffic. Rear obviously to make sure the signals squeaky clean.

This comment is a little curious to me. Perhaps I misconstrued it. Generally a good DSP will do everything and more then an equalizer will. Can you be more specific about the equipment you plan to use here?

I definitely commend you on your research and patience before purchase. Well done.

[Original wis]

Here's my mid/voice/highs or whatever build.

4 Power Acoustics NB4 1.5 in tweeters. I never thought of get those either but they sound fantastic.

Taramp's TS 400 X 4 at 4ohms, 60 watts per channel to match tweeters.

4 Rockford Fosgate Punch 6175 3 way coaxials.

Taramps 440 X 4 at 4 ohms, 69 watts per channel.

My thoughts are that the Fosgate coaxials will fill the mid bass and voice, leaving the Power Acoustics to overlap and fill in the highs. I know comps are the thing nowadays but I think these should serve the same purpose

I have a Clarion 7 band knob 1/2 din EQ so I can tune while in traffic on the fly. The EQ is for adjusting a particular frequency gain/cut for the entire system at once.

I plan to use a DSP to edit the performance of each speaker individually. To do that I'm going to send a flat signal to it from the EQ, make the adjustments for each speaker individually, and leave them there.

My thinking is that the DSP is for speaker editing. For example, if the driver side tweeter is a little too bright, I can edit it specifically without changing anything on any other speaker in the build. I'll need 10 channels, 4 for tweeters, 4 for coaxials, and 2 for subs.

The equalizer in the other hand, would be for like, cutting 5khz across the board at once if it's too loud for my ears for that specific song. That way I can add it back in on the next song if I choose to. I hope that explains the function of each.

I'm just not familiar with DSP applications as of yet. But to be really honest I'm still figuring at what the best option would be so any input would be appreciated. I do want to have that specific level of control for each speaker and each frequency.

Thanks,

Lewis King

[SublimeZ]

You will be better off getting 1 good component set for front (2 or 3 way). Or with a dsp you can choose raw drivers to make your own.

[Original wis]

It's for a 2001 Nissan Sentra. Can you recommend something?

I can build a box but I admittedly know next to nothing about front stage fill. As long as it fills in the bass, has clear voice, crisp highs, I'll check it out. The real issue is that I'm going to mount tweeters in the a pillars idk if a component 3 way could fit. But I'm willing to listen.

Lewis King

And what's a raw driver?

[dumdum]

It's for a 2001 Nissan Sentra. Can you recommend something?

I can build a box but I admittedly know next to nothing about front stage fill. As long as it fills in the bass, has clear voice, crisp highs, I'll check it out. The real issue is that I'm going to mount tweeters in the a pillars idk if a component 3 way could fit. But I'm willing to listen.

Lewis King

And what's a raw driver?

you need to wind back the urge to spend money and let people advise better, I wouldn’t be using tens at all for low end for a start, a pair of 15’s will be lots better for solid lows!

as for raw drivers, he means using mid and tweeters from the likes of parts express… you don’t want coaxial drivers to go with tweeters! Use a midbass driver, I’d also not use taramps for amps… for example jbl do some solid four channels that would probably sound much better… and the tweeters will likely see 10 watts at most so don’t stress about matching power to them, the amp will be turned so far down they will never see a fraction of the made up power they are rated at

what you don’t have a clue about is that the front end will make your subs sound better, have more impact and generally perform better… Be patient and you’ll get answers

[Euphonic]

Power: Taramps Smart 3
Wiring: 1 ohm load

Why a Taramps Smart 3 and not a Taramps Smart 3 Bass?

[Original wis]

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it.

I'm getting the Smart 3 bass I should have edited that in.

I'm still trying to understand the issue with using 3 ways with tweeters. I've done so in a lot of cars over the years and it's always sounded great. Is this a sound quality thing?

The reason that I'm getting a DSP is really so that I can play with it, learn how it works, the effect that it has, and see if like it or not.

I've never used components or DSPs, but I know that if I build my system the way that I've outlined above it'll result in a sound that I like. I had the punch 3 ways in another system a couple years ago and they were awesome but just missing a little at the top end. Which is what the tweeters are for.

If I buy components and a DSP and I don't like it I'll be stuck with 6-800 bucks of electronics that may as well be paperweights because I'll get next to nothing for them on the resale market. If I pick one or the other and buy what I know works for my ears to go with it, I'm cutting that risk in half and making sure that I don't have to redo the entire front stage if I think it was a bad buy. The DSP is the easiest one to remove if i don't like it.

This is really why my primary goal was to make sure that I picked a good subwoofer/box combo.

I don't know, I probably don't have a refined ear for listening so what sounds like trash to you still sounds nice to me. Maybe I'll grow into that in the future. The reason that I say that is because right now the car has 20 year old factory speakers in the front and $30 Walmart speakers in the back and it sounds cool to me. It's just missing a little at the top to bring out the crispiness of the hi hats and volume. Been driiving it for a year that way and have no complaints other than those 2 that i just mentioned. So maybe I'm a total bass junkie who only needs s certain amount of clarity in his system to be happy.

I experimented with 2 or 3 12's and 1 15 as well. The issue is the trunk space. There's only 1 face that I can put more than one speaker on and that's the top. I can get away with a double baffle and those 4 subs at around the $600 dollar range (Woofers Etc even gave me a great deal for buying 4 at 585 out the door), but a 15 won't have enough airspace, and two won't even fit. The cars smaller than a Honda Civic. I thought about 2 Sa 12s, they'll fit with the available cabin space. Really any 2 12 setup will. But 4 10s maximizes the available space. So I thought why not try it and see? I've had systems with 10's that were nice as well.

So maybe my build isn't a high end. It's probably to add way more bass and try out a couple of new things. I don't know, learning how to maximize the trunk space in a small area by using TS and learning how to graph the response and what it means was actually fun. Was awesome. Playing with a DSP in real time will be fun too. I'm actually looking forward to experimenting with adjusting speaker output on an individual level as opposed to making general sound adjustments to the entire system. It'll probably help with that ear refinement that I lack. But I'm not up for building an entire system from the floor up while throwing out everything that I'm sure will work for me. I'm thinking this is a middle ground approach that i can experiment with.

I think that you guys are in a completely different space than I am because u know so much more about it than I do. But it's a learning process. I'll play with the DSP, see how the box sounds, and tweak from there. Upgrading the front stage to a 2 or 3 way component system is an easy adjustment if I like the DSP and I think it'll improve the sound quality for me personally.

I'll spend 600 on the AudioControl DM-608 and see what it does. Would that be a high end DSP that'll give me a good feel for what it does? If i don't like it I'll eat the 600 and chalk it up to bring a learning experience. Is that a good enough DSP to play around with?

Lewis King

[Original wis]

So I looked at car audio fabrications video and I think he explained it much more clearly.

So what your really doing is ditching the crossover that's built into a coaxial, separating the woofer and tweeter by wiring them individually to separate amplifiers and using the DSP to filter out the unwanted frequencies for each. And just buying tweeters and woofers that handle much more power like 60-100 RMS instead of 40-60 RMS. You're just applying the same logic as to why a bass box is separate from the mids and highs, to the mids and highs. You're creating a mid bass system and a tweeter system. Is that pretty much what was done?

So say, getting the Hertz components that I actually looked at and separating the amps not by front and back but by each separate component you're actually creating even more control over the sound output. Is that right?

[DubScientist]

I don’t want to muddy the waters more than they already are, but I just wanted to stress that IMO buying a DSP will COMPLETELY change the way you hear your music in your car, basshead or not.

I have no idea about the AudioControl DSP you mention, but you can keep things simple with a DSP and still get results that will be very impressive compared to what you’re used to.

A DSP will allow you to buy an amp that can feed your tweeters and mid-ranges, and another for your mid-bass and subs, or any mixture you'd like. The same goes for speakers. Signal would be fed via RCA runs from your head unit to the DSP, then from the DSP to the amps.

From there, for example (and note that I'm keeping things really basic here to not bog us down) you would:

1) Set your individual speaker pair cross-over points & volume levels correctly using the DSP software. Volume level tweaking will mean that the speakers closest to you on the left side will not be louder the speakers further from you on the right side, but will match volume as close as possible. Also make sure that the speaker polarity is correct so there are no phase issues..

2) Get the path length differences (PLDs) for each of those speakers and enter that info into the DSP software. You get these numbers by measuring how far your left side tweeter is from your listening position, how far the left side mid-bass is from your listening position, how far the subs are, & then repeat that on the right side.

Doing this will allow the DSP to delay sound by the correct amount so that it gets to your ears at the right time, creating the illusion that you are at the CENTER of the soundstage (the “sweet spot”) as opposed to the far left of it.

3) Start tweaking the EQ to deal with the harsh automotive environment of hard plastic and glass. When you mention in your post above about wanting to EQ on the fly "if it's too loud for my ears for that specific song", you're talking about the effects of playing music in the car environment. Something in your car cabin is making that music sound unpleasant. Using a mic and RTA software to graph the frequency curve of the car and then EQing that would address some of those problems, but that's higher-level stuff that still makes my head hurt, lol.

Now, from my experience currently, I’m enjoying a system that has not had the needed EQing done yet due to life getting in the way, but almost of the music I’ve listened to sounds great. I just know that it can sound even more epic if I tune it correctly… but that's another rabbit hole, and there’s an entire sub-forum dedicated to it, lol.

I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in, so if you can hold off on pulling the trigger, I’d do so.