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Thread: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before Tune

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    Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before Tune

    X-post from DIYMA

    Thank you in advance for any help here!


    Set up will be:

    2021 GMC Sierra Sierra AT4
    Helix P6 Amp for GB60/15 Active (Front), GS62 (Rear)
    JL HD750.1 for 2 x JL 12TW3 (Stealthbox)
    UMIK-1 Mic (Also have a IMM-6)

    Started to prep for my upcoming build and first time tuning. I had some questions specific to setting up channel gain and output levels before I use the both the Helix RTA/Auto EQ (after reading on CAJ) and/or REW. Iin preparation of the tuning process, I have been playing with the PC Tool in demo mode for a week or so and absorbing what I can from Youtube tutorials for Helix and REW.

    I plan to use the AF House Curve and will set my sub amp gain with an O Scope at 40hz (then double check with a multimeter vs JL's recommended voltage, they have usually been damn close in the past) before I tune.

    Question #1 - Left / Right Gain Balance
    Can/Should I do this quick and dirty using an IMM-6 (or REW w/ UMIK-1) to get SPL within a couple db of each other? Or set them to equal gain/output and let the tuning process (whether AutoEQ or REW) vette this out?

    Question #2 - Subwoofer vs Door Speakers/Tweeter Gain
    I generally see that most house curves have sub 100 Hz +10db (and tapering off) for the most part and wondering how folks adjust this before tuning? Or if they adjust this at all?

    In my brain I am thinking that my door speakers and tweeters should all be set -10db (or close) in the Helix software before I tune but looking for advice. Is this pointless before tuning?

    Question #3 - Tuning Order
    I have seen a few different strategies using the HelixRTA / AutoEQ feature. My strategy right now is:

    1. Right Front (GB60 & GB15), No Sub
    2. Right Rear (GS62), No Sub
    3. Right Front and Rear, No Sub
    4. Left Front (GB60 & GB15), No Sub
    5. Left Rear (GS62), No Sub
    6. Left Front and Rear, No Sub
    7. Sub Only
    8. All Channels

    How does this look? Any advantages to tuning the left side vs right side first? I know most folks tune each driver individually but I have been reading very promising things about the AutoEQ in the Helix RTA and most people tend to group drivers there. I am planning to tweak specifically in REW after the fact but I know I will be pressed for time when I first get my rig set up and won't have the hours to spare to tune fully in REW as a noob.

    Hopefully @SkizeR takes a look at this Seems to the local Helix guru here on DIYMA and CAJ.

    Thanks to anyone that can help!

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    Noob Jdunk54nl's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before T

    Best bet is to put way all of those "fancy" tools for gain setting.

    Set your gains on the helix to 0db in the software. Make sure input sensitivity for each channel is set appropriately on the helix. You want the dsp putting out as much as it can to your amps to have as low of gain on them as possible (this reduces potential noise issues).
    Set basic time distances (or use Helix's built in T/A stuff).

    Then use your microphone to set appropriate gains.

    -Pull up REW and input the audiofrog house curve (you can generate this using Justin Zazzi's tuning companion found on this site in a sticky in the tuning session)

    -Set crossovers appropriately for each speaker to not break them. You can adjust and fine tune this later, but it should be semi-close to what you will be using.

    -Edit** While nothing is playing, turn up amp gains that have physical gain knobs to max level before noise is too much in system. For amps with dsp/digitally controlled gains, do the same using their controls in the software

    -Mute right side and sub and just leave left side on. Start REW RTA with audiofrog curve in the background (the selected response will always be in the background of the RTA). Adjust audiofrog curve level to be at lowest speaker level (since you already maxed out each gain for minimal noise).

    -Turn down amp gain(s) (since you already maxed out each gain for minimal noise you don't want to increase anymore) until the curve and the level of each speaker are at the same level as each other. Set gains to lowest speaker level, as in, if mid is much lower than tweeter, set levels based on mid's max level before noise in the system is too much.

    -Now mute left side and do the same for right side, if only one gain knob for two speakers, make sure they are close, you can fine tune in the dsp.

    -Now turn on both sides and subs and set sub level.

    Now you have appropriate gains set and are halfway to being done with tuning. Fine tune some crossovers and then run Auto EQ.
    Last edited by Jdunk54nl; 12-29-2021 at 11:02 AM.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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    Re: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before T

    Also, you can't mix your eventual REW EQ work and the helix. The helix auto eq, unless it has been updated since I used it a couple years ago, just uses the graphic eq, not parametric. 32 bands of graphic eq does quite a bit of good work, but it can't focus specifically on peaks like parametric can. So auto eq is great for a beginner, just no where near what you can do yourself with REW and parametric eq work.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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    Re: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before T

    First off, thank you very very much for the detailed response and the step by step guide. This is incredibly helpful. I had a couple follow up questions if that's ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post

    -Turn up amp gains that have physical gain knobs to max level before noise is too much in system. For amps with dsp/digitally controlled gains, do the same using their controls in the software
    I plan on using my simple O scope (with HU on maximum undistorted volume) on the speaker outputs on both the Helix P6 (1000Hz) and the 750.1 (40Hz) during this process. Simple enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post

    Adjust audiofrog curve level to be at lowest speaker level (since you already maxed out each gain for minimal noise).
    Do you have a target SPL you like to measure/tune at? 85db?

    Everything else made sense to me! Thanks a ton again!

    Also understood on the AutoEQ graphic vs REW parametric process. I'll probs try AutoEQ to start and then do a true toon later when I get some free time.

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    Noob Jdunk54nl's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before T

    Quote Originally Posted by RickWilson View Post
    First off, thank you very very much for the detailed response and the step by step guide. This is incredibly helpful. I had a couple follow up questions if that's ok.



    I plan on using my simple O scope (with HU on maximum undistorted volume) on the speaker outputs on both the Helix P6 (1000Hz) and the 750.1 (40Hz) during this process. Simple enough?

    -Mute right side and sub and just leave left side on. Start REW RTA with audiofrog curve in the background (the selected response will always be in the background of the RTA).



    Do you have a target SPL you like to measure/tune at? 85db?

    Everything else made sense to me! Thanks a ton again!

    Also understood on the AutoEQ graphic vs REW parametric process. I'll probs try AutoEQ to start and then do a true toon later when I get some free time.
    O Scope is fine for head unit measurements to see max undistorted, but not the right tool for setting amp gains, that should be your microphone and ears. Maximize amp gains for noise introduced in the system. Too much noise, turn down amp gains, no noise, turn up amp gains. Once you find the max for each speaker/gain/noise minimizing, then pull out your microphone and set all gains to lowest speaker level.

    If you use an o-scope, you are either potentially over driving things anyway if you use any - db tone (like -5db, -10db, etc) and/or leaving things on the table if you use 0db tones. Not to mention a whole mess of other issues o-scopes have. If you really want to use your o-scope, the only driver it MAY be appropriate for is the subwoofers since they are the only ones likely to get even close to a 0db level. Odds are though, if you do it that way, you won't be happy with overall volume.
    If you use 0db tones for tweeters/mids, you would be overdriving those anyway since they will never see 0db music.

    As far as volume goes, loud enough to overcome "room" noise. At minimum this should be about 10db above the noise floor, but preferably as much as you can stand.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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    Re: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before T

    Ah gotcha, I suppose I am not sure what I looking (in terms of noise) in terms of reading on the mic via REW. I assume the noise, from a hearing standpoint, I'm listening for distortion in the pink noise?

    Thanks!

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    Noob Jdunk54nl's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before T

    Sorry, I could have been clearer on that. When setting gains, you aren’t playing anything. You are just listening (via your ears) to the “static” that gets created if you turn up the gains too much. This is what you are trying to minimize.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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    Re: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before T

    oh haha, this makes a ton more sense. Thanks!

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    Noob Stycker's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before T

    This is great info. I have never set gains like this. The way you outlined it makes perfect sense. You also taught me how to use REW properly especially with acoustic crossovers. A BIG thank you Jdunk.

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    Re: Newbie Tuning Help - Helix P6 (AutoEQ/REW), Properly Setting Gain/Output Before T

    I can't take full credit for this. It is a slight twist to how Andy Wehmeyer posted about setting gains and how Nick Appicella told me how he does it (the increase amp gains until too much noise approach). This is also similar to how Justin Zazzi set's his gains. Andy's way left some loudness ability on the table when I tried it. This way, from my perspective, maximizes loudness ability while minimizing noise. Something we all want.

    It also protects speakers that need it. If you do 0db tones, you are going to set your tweeters (and mids if 3 way) levels way higher than needed. My tweeter amp is at minimal gain and I still had to turn it down in the dsp to match other speaker levels (and mids very close to minimal amp knob gain with 0db level in dsp). With test tones, it would be set at whatever gain was "appropriate" for the test tones, then you just turn it down even more in the dsp. This leaves potential for noise, and sending A LOT of power to those speakers if you mess something up.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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