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Thread: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

  1. Back To Top    #21
    Noob 89grand's Avatar
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    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post
    They work really well in Justin and my doors. Next meetup you can hear how well
    I'm looking forward to it. Sometimes the paper specs don't matter as much in real world use.

  2. Back To Top    #22

    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post
    Whatever wideband you choose, REALLY tough to beat the peerless sls 6.5 if you can cross it under 500hz. Justin Zazzi and myself both use these. He uses the legatia l3se (IIRC) as a wideband and I use a traditional 3way. The peerless is a monster of a 6.5.
    I've seen these mentioned a lot, and I'm sure they're amazing, but amazing enough to skip out on the extra cone area a 6x9 or even 8" can provide? I was looking at the CDT CL-69, but there are a few 8" on madisound that would fit too ~3.25" depth. But, I'm not sure what to look for to know if they'd be good

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...m-8-wool-cone/
    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/
    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/

    theres also these 8" I found

    https://www.slaacoustics.com/product...-8-woofer-pair

  3. Back To Top    #23
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    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    If you are crossing your woofer over at about 400hz, then you want something that can play up to that but also play low to cross over well to the subs.

    Here is what to look for.

    FS should be lower, like max 50hz but lower the better as long as it is still playing fine up to 400hz. The lower the FS, the easier the integration will be with the subs.

    Size of woofer is important, more size means it can move more air. But this works in conjunction with the next part

    Xmax needs to be as much as possible. (Be weary of these stats, some are really exaggerated)

    A 6x9 that only moves 1mm will not out perform a 6.5 that moves 7mm. A 6x9 that moves 7mm will outperform a 6.5 that moves 7mm, but you have to take that into account, how big of a woofer and how much can it move.

    The problem with the CDT is they don't have any of the above specs listed. So that would keep me from buying them.


    If you can fit an 8" then there is an 8" version of the peerless (but it is 8ohm): https://www.parts-express.com/Peerle...oofer-264-1102
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by itsZiz View Post
    I've seen these mentioned a lot, and I'm sure they're amazing, but amazing enough to skip out on the extra cone area a 6x9 or even 8" can provide? I was looking at the CDT CL-69, but there are a few 8" on madisound that would fit too ~3.25" depth. But, I'm not sure what to look for to know if they'd be good

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...m-8-wool-cone/
    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/
    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/

    theres also these 8" I found

    https://www.slaacoustics.com/product...-8-woofer-pair

    The scanspeak starts dropping off at like 125hz. For an 8" woofer, I would want it to be better than the 6.5" sls. Also only 5.7mm quoted xmax.
    The sb acoustics doesn't look too bad, but it has some nasty stuff going from 35hz to 80hz. Kind of a key area for what you want.

    The silver flute doesn't look too bad but it's xmax is only 5mm, and generally these are exaggerated so I would expect only like 3-4mm at most.

    The sls 6.5" has a xmax of 8.2mm from specs (and it can really move), the 8" woofers above, IMO, aren't enough to overcome the additional xmax of the sls 6.5".
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by itsZiz View Post
    I've seen these mentioned a lot, and I'm sure they're amazing, but amazing enough to skip out on the extra cone area a 6x9 or even 8" can provide? I was looking at the CDT CL-69, but there are a few 8" on madisound that would fit too ~3.25" depth. But, I'm not sure what to look for to know if they'd be good

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...m-8-wool-cone/
    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/
    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/

    theres also these 8" I found

    https://www.slaacoustics.com/product...-8-woofer-pair
    All else being equal, more cone area is better, but we know that all is generally not equal so it's quite possible for a 6.5" to out perform a 8", but generally speaking, a bigger cone is preferred and the sensitivity is usually a little better, although I don't think sensitivity is a spec worth really focusing on.

    I hope I don't get too long winded, or come across as trying to be more knowledgeable than anyone else, these are simply my opinions, but paper specs only matter so much. Case in point, a higher QTS is generally preferred for IB/leaky sealed door use, something over .4 QTS, but the Peerless being talked about here is on the low side at .35, but apparently still works good in a door, I don't have any experience with it personally, but others do and like it. So higher QTS on paper is better, but lower QTS drivers can perform well too in some cases. Xmax is another one. A higher Xmax has more displacement, so if two drivers are the same size, but one has more Xmax, then on paper it has more output capability, but that only matters if you would use the higher Xmax. I don't think that spec is all that important for a midbass driver operating at a reasonable 60hz-80hz and higher. You won't be using a lot of Xmax there, unless the rest of the system is extremely loud.

    Frequency response and FS matter to a degree, but most 6.5" drivers and larger should be able to play down to 80hz without an issue, and usually even lower. I'm not a fan of running the sub crossed over really low, and trying to make the midbass play really low (less than 60hz). You'll just end up with less bass impact, less dynamic range, and a door that rattles like crazy. I'm personally using 70hz between my sub and 6x9 door midbass. I was using 80hz, but I got a slightly better blend and slightly less bass bloat using 70hz (I could have addressed that with more tuning as well). 60hz was too low. The 6x9's handled it just fine, but I had less bass impact, and more door noises. Super low crossover points aren't needed for "up front bass". If you aren't trying to use a subwoofer as a midbass, they should all easily play up to the crossover point to a wide band (250-400hz depending on which wide band is used). A 2way with a tweeters is a completely different story, but wide bands allow the use of most speakers that would be unusable with just a tweeter.

    As far as the CDT 6x9, I'm pretty sure it came with a t/s parameters sheet, I'll have to see if I can find one. I didn't really care enough to remember the specs because it works great in my application. It gets loud enough with the power I have and can easily handle the power I have, plays more than low enough for my chosen crossover point, plays more than high enough to work with the wide bands, and most importantly, it fit my front doors without needing modifications.

    So in a nutshell, specs are something to look at, but shouldn't be the complete deciding factor. A speaker that fits, is within whatever the budget is, and performs as one should given its size takes priority, then choosing between speakers that fit that criteria, could be decided on based off of one or more specs deemed most important.

  6. Back To Top    #26
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    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by 89grand View Post
    Frequency response and FS matter to a degree, but most 6.5" drivers and larger should be able to play down to 80hz without an issue, and usually even lower. I'm not a fan of running the sub crossed over really low, and trying to make the midbass play really low (less than 60hz). You'll just end up with less bass impact, less dynamic range, and a door that rattles like crazy. I'm personally using 70hz between my sub and 6x9 door midbass. I was using 80hz, but I got a slightly better blend and slightly less bass bloat using 70hz (I could have addressed that with more tuning as well). 60hz was too low. The 6x9's handled it just fine, but I had less bass impact, and more door noises. Super low crossover points aren't needed for "up front bass". If you aren't trying to use a subwoofer as a midbass, they should all easily play up to the crossover point to a wide band (250-400hz depending on which wide band is used). A 2way with a tweeters is a completely different story, but wide bands allow the use of most speakers that would be unusable with just a tweeter.
    Yes, most will cross the sub to woofer over at ~80hz. I do a little higher currently. The point of the speaker being able to play lower is so when you set your electrical crossovers, it aligns better to your acoustic target curve with less EQ work.

    Think about this with the low pass part around 400hz. If the speaker plays well above that and is playing flat, it makes life usually easier. If you want an acoustic linkwitz riley 24db/oct crossover at 400hz, you can most likely just set that as your electrical setting (give or take some) and it will fit pretty well. If your speaker starts naturally rolling off at 400hz, you are going to have to use a combination of different crossover settings AND the natural roll off to come up with your acoustic LR 24db/oct roll off.

    So on the high pass side is where this issue usually occurs. If you want an acoustic crossover around 80hz, if your speaker is playing flat well below that, it is easy and electrical settings are much closer to acoustic target. If your speaker is naturally starting to roll off like some do, you now have to do more work to get your acoustic crossover to be what you want and electrical settings will be quite a bit different than acoustic.

    I know my peerless CAN play fairly flat down to about 20hz (Shocked me when I saw this). But I don't want them playing that low because the power needed to get the SPL I would want would easily fry them.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post
    Yes, most will cross the sub to woofer over at ~80hz. I do a little higher currently. The point of the speaker being able to play lower is so when you set your electrical crossovers, it aligns better to your acoustic target curve with less EQ work.

    Think about this with the low pass part around 400hz. If the speaker plays well above that and is playing flat, it makes life usually easier. If you want an acoustic linkwitz riley 24db/oct crossover at 400hz, you can most likely just set that as your electrical setting (give or take some) and it will fit pretty well. If your speaker starts naturally rolling off at 400hz, you are going to have to use a combination of different crossover settings AND the natural roll off to come up with your acoustic LR 24db/oct roll off.

    So on the high pass side is where this issue usually occurs. If you want an acoustic crossover around 80hz, if your speaker is playing flat well below that, it is easy and electrical settings are much closer to acoustic target. If your speaker is naturally starting to roll off like some do, you now have to do more work to get your acoustic crossover to be what you want and electrical settings will be quite a bit different than acoustic.

    I know my peerless CAN play fairly flat down to about 20hz (Shocked me when I saw this). But I don't want them playing that low because the power needed to get the SPL I would want would easily fry them.
    I completely agree with this. I might have worded my post in a way that suggested that if a speaker can just play to 80hz and just to the crossover point to the wide bands that that is enough. That's isn't the case as you mentioned. Having a wider response than is needed is always ideal.

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    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by itsZiz View Post
    I've seen these mentioned a lot, and I'm sure they're amazing, but amazing enough to skip out on the extra cone area a 6x9 or even 8" can provide? I was looking at the CDT CL-69, but there are a few 8" on madisound that would fit too ~3.25" depth. But, I'm not sure what to look for to know if they'd be good

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...m-8-wool-cone/
    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/
    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-woofer-4-ohm/

    theres also these 8" I found

    https://www.slaacoustics.com/product...-8-woofer-pair
    Of all of these, the Aries looks the best for door use as the QTS is .58. The Silver Flute looks the worst. The QTS is really low at I think .23, which means it's really meant for a ported enclosure. The Silver Flute has a f3 of a whopping 105hz in a .3ft3 sealed box. Doors aren't exactly a sealed box, but similar.

    Low QTS drivers in a door will need a lot of bass eq and that just means more amplifier power, and more likely more rattles. Higher QTS drivers will have more lower bass, and will need less eq, or maybe even frequency cuts via the eq, which actually saves power.

  9. Back To Top    #29

    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    Thanks for looking into those, they were just the only 8" woofers I found that fit the depth requirements.

    I do wish the CDT stuff had more specs posted, but I'd have to assume they are somewhat capable, since they're intentionally made for car audio, and they have better sensitivity and rms wattage...

    but I am very interested in the Peerless SLS 6.5. I can cross the Unity 8's down to 400 (probably in pods on axis) with these Peerless, and it should sound pretty darn good (Sundown SD-4 10" sub too) I hope.

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    Re: 2way Active Speaker System Suggestions

    Well, I'm not pushing CDT, but I use them, and the price to performance is good. The whole set for a Ram which is 2 pairs of the CL69-S woofers and Unity 8.0's (with 3.5" adapters) were $499 (Not cheap by crap ass coaxial standards, but well priced compared to other higher end speakers). If they didn't perform well, I'd get rid of them. I have no problem swapping gear if something sucks. The ultimate tuning of the system will be by far the biggest difference, assuming a decent install.

    I can say this with experience. If you have decent equipment, and you tune it, and feel like you need to swap something out, find out what's wrong with the tune and fix it instead. Over the course of time, when I first did my install less than a year ago, I'd think I might need more power, or something, but then I'd retune it and improve it, and then I'd realize it was my tune not quite up to snuff rather than the gear. I've gotten mine to where I think it's pretty good. It gets loud enough, the tonality is good, the imaging is good. There is always room for improvement, but more often that not, the tune is the problem if something sounds off. Years ago, I used to chase the equipment, mainly speakers for better sound until I realized what the real problem usually is.

    Now, if you need more SPL and you simply cannot get it because everything is already driven to its limits, then you'll need an upgrade somewhere, but if it's the sound you don't like, it's probably the tune.

    Before you try pods, if you get the Unity 8's, try them right in the dash firing at the windshield. They do great there, and don't have that choked sound some speakers do in small pods. I play mine from 375hz and up.

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