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Thread: Xover Zone EQ

  1. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post
    I am assuming you are talking about two speakers causing a dip. 100% agree with that.

    But if you are just looking at a single speaker response (no other speaker playing), and it alone has a dip / boost right near the crossover frequency, say crossover is 80hz on a woofer and you have a peak at 85hz that won't go away with any crossover alone settings, wouldn't you want to eq that peak down? (honestly asking as I feel like we, and maybe the original intent of what the OP quoted, is talking about different things)
    no, I am talking about a single driver playing and dips that don’t respond to eq very well or at all (I specifically didn’t mention peaks) the deep type that are a result of reflections and standing waves, you should not and wouldn’t want to pile eq in there nor would you place a crossover there as the phase is messed up… you need to look in high resolution… I take 1/48th octave everytime and look at issues and then smooth once o am aware of the big dips

    peaks are where good phase conincides with the same phase reflection, so you still have good phase at the peak, that spot you can place a crossover, and can remove energy with eq

    however please also note you have to read what is roughly the level of the driver… with no car present and then work out what is a dip and what is excessive boost for example low mid upto 700-1000hz with pillars and a highly reflective environment, that may create some what look like dips, but in reality it’s sea level between two mountains

  2. Back To Top    #12
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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
    no, I am talking about a single driver playing and dips that don’t respond to eq very well or at all (I specifically didn’t mention peaks) the deep type that are a result of reflections and standing waves, you should not and wouldn’t want to pile eq in there nor would you place a crossover there as the phase is messed up… you need to look in high resolution… I take 1/48th octave everytime and look at issues and then smooth once o am aware of the big dips

    peaks are where good phase conincides with the same phase reflection, so you still have good phase at the peak, that spot you can place a crossover, and can remove energy with eq

    however please also note you have to read what is roughly the level of the driver… with no car present and then work out what is a dip and what is excessive boost for example low mid upto 700-1000hz with pillars and a highly reflective environment, that may create some what look like dips, but in reality it’s sea level between two mountains

    Ah Yes, if the dip is caused by something that doesn't respond to EQ, definitely do not boost.

    What about dips that are not caused by reflections etc? Ones that you could boost by 6db and it would rise 6db (without any other issues) but are still near the crossover region?

    Like the sea level example or it just happens to be lower at that point due to something within the speaker, maybe off axis response or the speaker just naturally dips there but responds to eq fine and no distortion or other issues.
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  3. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post
    So, basically just playing with/adjusting time delay is a quick and somewhat easy way to correct a dip around the crossover especially if the positioning of the speaker isn't going to be altered, correct?
    It will correct it but it’s not the whole picture, if you add delay to the mid you are effectively changing the arrival time of the rest of the frequencys in the audio spectrum, adding delay has twice as much effect at 2khz than it does at 1khz due to the wavelength period being shorter, that’s why it’s essential to place the crossover where you can set ta effectively by a tape give or take a few cm, you can play with polarity and that effects the frequency spectrum timing equally and keeps arrival times throughout the pass band of a driver relatively nice

    you can also apply a second order all pass filter at the crossover freq with the phase control in a helix and it adds some delay to the rest of the spectrum

    i am a massive fan of getting symmetrical crossovers if possible, generally you won’t get the same dips from both sides of drivers are symmetrical, so that’s my good starting point…

  4. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post
    Ah Yes, if the dip is caused by something that doesn't respond to EQ, definitely do not boost.

    What about dips that are not caused by reflections etc? Ones that you could boost by 6db and it would rise 6db (without any other issues) but are still near the crossover region?

    Like the sea level example or it just happens to be lower at that point due to something within the speaker, maybe off axis response or the speaker just naturally dips there but responds to eq fine and no distortion or other issues.
    if you can put 6db into a dip and get 6db it’s not a dip due to a reflection or standing wave generally

    you kind of have to grade dips and almost make mental notes where the non responsive dips are and then stay away from them as best you can, what I do also realise is the crossover point (as with everything in a car) is making the best of a bad job at times, sometimes you can use steeper slopes for example and avoid issues that way by making the crossover overlap narrower effectively

    i know if I try to use 12 or 18db slopes on my midbass to mids I get an average blend, if I swap to a 24dv slope I can get it very nice with good level matching

  5. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post
    So, I revamped my system (new tweets-ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6020) and readjusted my mids (GB60's) with more deadening and new spacers.

    Anyways, I'm retuning and quite often read about avoiding EQ within the xover zone. What is the interpretation/definition of the xover zone?

    Let's say for example purposes that i choose 2500 as the crossover for the mid/tweeter. Is the xover zone of 2500, 50hz either side or 500hz either side of that number? I understand we want a smooth response from mid to tweeter with minimal peaks and nulls but, how much EQ is acceptable in and around the crossover point?
    The xover zone would be the sloped portion of the fr (single speaker) caused by the xover. You can eq as much as you need in that area, but at a certain point down that slope eq will be pointless. I prefer to eq all of the un-crossed natural fr that is reasonably flat, that way I can try different xover points without changing the eq.

  6. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by ckirocz28 View Post
    The xover zone would be the sloped portion of the fr (single speaker) caused by the xover. You can eq as much as you need in that area, but at a certain point down that slope eq will be pointless. I prefer to eq all of the un-crossed natural fr that is reasonably flat, that way I can try different xover points without changing the eq.
    You stated you prefer to eq out past the crossover albeit only if it is flat. How far out should this L-mid be eq'd if crossed @ 2k? What are the advantages or disadvantages of doing so? I've always used REW auto eq and just matched the range up to the crossover.

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  7. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post
    You stated you prefer to eq out past the crossover albeit only if it is flat. How far out should this L-mid be eq'd if crossed @ 2k? What are the advantages or disadvantages of doing so? I've always used REW auto eq and just matched the range up to the crossover.

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    generally I go an octave above with 24db slopes… but if I have big dips in 1/48 octave I won’t bother generally, but also I will take down big peaks that are present from cone break up or the like to remove energy from outside the pass band, generally you can see these as random tall peaks in and other wise flat landscape (in your case the 5/6khz bump, this will likely reduce various orders of distortion lower down the actual listening passband… so I’d expect a second order peak around 2.5-3khz due to it)

  8. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
    generally I go an octave above with 24db slopes… but if I have big dips in 1/48 octave I won’t bother generally, but also I will take down big peaks that are present from cone break up or the like to remove energy from outside the pass band, generally you can see these as random tall peaks in and other wise flat landscape (in your case the 5/6khz bump, this will likely reduce various orders of distortion lower down the actual listening passband… so I’d expect a second order peak around 2.5-3khz due to it)
    Ok, thanks. I 've read the one octave above/below before but, never put it into a tune. I will try that with this current tune.

  9. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post
    You stated you prefer to eq out past the crossover albeit only if it is flat. How far out should this L-mid be eq'd if crossed @ 2k? What are the advantages or disadvantages of doing so? I've always used REW auto eq and just matched the range up to the crossover.

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    I'd probably go 60-3500 hz on that. The advantage is being able to change the xover points without another eq session, also the electronic xovers will match the acoustic xovers pretty closely.

  10. Back To Top    #20

    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by ckirocz28 View Post
    I'd probably go 60-3500 hz on that. The advantage is being able to change the xover points without another eq session, also the electronic xovers will match the acoustic xovers pretty closely.
    And flatten the cone breakup peak at 6.5khz (very important! It’s effectively extra energy input from cone resonances)

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