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Thread: Xover Zone EQ

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    Xover Zone EQ

    So, I revamped my system (new tweets-ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6020) and readjusted my mids (GB60's) with more deadening and new spacers.

    Anyways, I'm retuning and quite often read about avoiding EQ within the xover zone. What is the interpretation/definition of the xover zone?

    Let's say for example purposes that i choose 2500 as the crossover for the mid/tweeter. Is the xover zone of 2500, 50hz either side or 500hz either side of that number? I understand we want a smooth response from mid to tweeter with minimal peaks and nulls but, how much EQ is acceptable in and around the crossover point?

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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Where do you read that? Setting a crossover is eq in a crossover zone...
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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    I won't mention the other forums by name but, here's a couple of examples of what i've read over the past year.

    "When EQing, most prefer to cut rather than to boost any particular frequency especially around the crossover".

    "The main idea is to arrive at a relatively flat summed response in the crossover region instead of applying any EQ in that region".

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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Both of those are, in my opinion, not good advice.


    First this one:
    "When EQing, most prefer to cut rather than to boost any particular frequency especially around the crossover".

    Boosting is fine, cutting is fine. You just don't want to boost something that won't actually be boosted. Like a cancellation due to center console.

    In other words, if you try to boost something, and it doesn't actually work (level doesn't increase as much as it should), don't boost it. I also generally don't boost a bunch on the low end of the speakers frequency or where distortion is already high in the speaker.

    This also goes with, if you are cutting a bunch, then boost something, usually you are still overall cutting the response. But boost away, just don't clip any signal and cause distortion.


    Second one:
    "The main idea is to arrive at a relatively flat summed response in the crossover region instead of applying any EQ in that region".

    EDIT* this advice is for a single speaker response, if looking at two speakers playing together, you need to figure out why them playing together is causing a dip, this is phase related issues.

    The only way to do this is applying eq. As I said before, simply adding a crossover filter is eq'ing.

    You do want the overall goal of a summed response to be hitting your target. Two speakers playing together sum to a 6db overall increase. So at the crossover region you want both speakers to be 6db down (Linkwitz Riley crossover does this by design). To keep phase as correct as possible you want a 24db/oct crossover slope.

    All of this is acoustical crossovers, as in, what you measure using your microphone in your listening position. Whatever dsp settings it takes to do this does not matter, as long as you are still protecting the speaker with those settings. You don't want to set too low of crossovers to where you risk breaking the speaker etc.
    Last edited by Jdunk54nl; 07-26-2021 at 10:12 AM.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post
    Both of those are, in my opinion, not good advice.



    In other words, if you try to boost something, and it doesn't actually work (level doesn't increase as much as it should), don't boost it. I also generally don't boost a bunch on the low end of the speakers frequency or where distortion is already high in the speaker.

    This also goes with, if you are cutting a bunch, then boost something, usually you are still overall cutting the response. But boost away, just don't clip any signal and cause distortion.
    Yes, I fully understand this


    First this one:
    "When EQing, most prefer to cut rather than to boost any particular frequency especially around the crossover".

    Boosting is fine, cutting is fine. You just don't want to boost something that won't actually be boosted. Like a cancellation due to center console.
    I follow this rule
    Second one:
    "The main idea is to arrive at a relatively flat summed response in the crossover region instead of applying any EQ in that region".

    The only way to do this is applying eq. As I said before, simply adding a crossover filter is eq'ing.

    You do want the overall goal of a summed response to be hitting your target. Two speakers playing together sum to a 6db overall increase. So at the crossover region you want both speakers to be 6db down (Linkwitz Riley crossover does this by design). To keep phase as correct as possible you want a 24db/oct crossover slope.

    All of this is acoustical crossovers, as in, what you measure using your microphone in your listening position. Whatever dsp settings it takes to do this does not matter, as long as you are still protecting the speaker with those settings. You don't want to set too low of crossovers to where you risk breaking the speaker etc.
    Overall i understand the process of crossovers. Eq, etc. I just have issues with a thing or two here or there. One thing I have struggled with is not getting that summation at crossovers on the 4 typical combinations. In other words R-mid/sub, L-mid/sub, R-mid/R-tw, L-mid/L-tw. It seems I always have one and sometimes two that don't have a smooth transition. If I boost a little around the actual crossover I can usually get it smoother, however.

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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    If, after you are done with eq work, your speaker responses look something like this acoustically measured linkwitz riley 24 db/oct crossovers, then it is a timing issue that needs to be fixed. This could be done with time delay, but also may need all pass filters to solve.



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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    It’s actually very good advice if you don’t have phase information to hand, the reason being any dips present could well/are likely to be phase related, so two out of phase waves coming together at the listening position

    if the phase is not smooth and nice at a crossover it’s simply won’t sum very well

    the original advice is sound

    i can tell by looking at a phase plot of two drivers where a crossover will be good or bad at any given point, you need good phase coherance at a crossover so avoiding dips in that region if you can is an extremely good start if you just have amplitude information

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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    So, basically just playing with/adjusting time delay is a quick and somewhat easy way to correct a dip around the crossover especially if the positioning of the speaker isn't going to be altered, correct?

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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
    It’s actually very good advice if you don’t have phase information to hand, the reason being any dips present could well/are likely to be phase related, so two out of phase waves coming together at the listening position

    if the phase is not smooth and nice at a crossover it’s simply won’t sum very well

    the original advice is sound

    i can tell by looking at a phase plot of two drivers where a crossover will be good or bad at any given point, you need good phase coherance at a crossover so avoiding dips in that region if you can is an extremely good start if you just have amplitude information
    I am assuming you are talking about two speakers causing a dip. 100% agree with that.

    But if you are just looking at a single speaker response (no other speaker playing), and it alone has a dip / boost right near the crossover frequency, say crossover is 80hz on a woofer and you have a peak at 85hz that won't go away with any crossover alone settings, wouldn't you want to eq that peak down? (honestly asking as I feel like we, and maybe the original intent of what the OP quoted, is talking about different things)
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    Re: Xover Zone EQ

    Quote Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post
    So, basically just playing with/adjusting time delay is a quick and somewhat easy way to correct a dip around the crossover especially if the positioning of the speaker isn't going to be altered, correct?
    Time delay alone MAY fix that dip, may not. Sometimes the use of all pass filters will be needed.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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