Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

[geolemon]

125-150 watts each as subwoofers (no high pass) will reach Xmax below about 30 hz. 300 watts each as midbasses (high passed at 40 hz), a pair will knock your socks off. That's all in 0.14 cubic foot sealed boxes for each one.

Yep - no problem with the T1000x5ad, it's rated 100w/ch and actually benches over 130w/ch.

The DLS CC4 is only 50w/ch.
I know realistically that's not really that big of a deal - but my thought was I could send all the power I need to the midbass with the RF amps...
...and for the front stage (wideband/tweets), on an RF amp that has that kind of power, being gain-limited down to more like 30w/ch for those drivers - it's got good test bench SQ specs to begin with, I would think they'd be better being run so conservatively low.

Lots of options apparently.

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[geolemon]

I was going to mention Biketronics as well. That's the route I'm going, patiently waiting on a 180x4 Gold series (which also has gain pots) and a custom 3-channel (250x2@4 ohms, 700x1@2ohms). Each amp is only 7" x 5" or so. They are designed to survive in Harley fairings and have a lifetime warranty.

They have a few other configurations, not all of them are shown on the website. In the same size chassis you can also get 250x4 or 700x2. There's also a 180x6 in a slightly larger case and some smaller 2-channel options.

I'll start googling them now...
Are they actually good SQ amps, or are they just "something to fit motorcycles"?

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[goatpanda]

I'll start googling them now...
Are they actually good SQ amps, or are they just "something to fit motorcycles"?

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I had the same questions when I first saw reviews of them on DIYMA. They might seem a little hokey but apparently are pretty legit, they use Hypex UCD amplifier modules which have been around for awhile and have been well-regarded in pro audio and home audio. Genesis and NAD are a couple of home audio amps that use them, I recently got a little NAD D 3020 v2 (which uses Hypex UCD) to run my Paradigm Millenia computer speakers and I'm impressed by how much of an improvement it is over the original Paradigm amp. Dead silent, very clean and surprisingly dynamic.

Biketronics designs their own 12v power supplies and class A input circuits for the Hypex modules, they also source/build as much locally as possible. Pretty neat little company, their bread and butter are motorcycle electronics but they also make some guitar/bass amplifiers under Vivid Amps, using the newer/improved Hypex Ncore modules. They have a very good reputation for reliability and customer service among the Harley crowd. Some folks on DIYMA love their amps.

I don't mean to sound like a brochure, I'm just parroting what I've read in other forums. I was curious enough to want to try them myself, when I asked if they'd be willing to make a custom hybrid 3-channel for me and they said yes it sealed the deal. They have decided to turn that 3-channel into a regular product which is pretty cool. But COVID has really slowed things down, I've been waiting for awhile on mine. Definitely more of a boutique experience, your amp gets built specifically for you with some customization options.

[ckirocz28]

Yep - no problem with the T1000x5ad, it's rated 100w/ch and actually benches over 130w/ch.

The DLS CC4 is only 50w/ch.
I know realistically that's not really that big of a deal - but my thought was I could send all the power I need to the midbass with the RF amps...
...and for the front stage (wideband/tweets), on an RF amp that has that kind of power, being gain-limited down to more like 30w/ch for those drivers - it's got good test bench SQ specs to begin with, I would think they'd be better being run so conservatively low.

Lots of options apparently.

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They probably won't take much power at all in an IB setup, if that's how your gonna use them.

[Justin Zazzi]

This specific comparison is THIS context:
* a 25x4 A/B amp using ALL its power
vs
* a 100x4 relatively high-end (and modern) class D amp **being run at 1/4 it's rated power.** Maybe 1/3 at most.

Two thoughts:

You'll never get the rated power out of an amplifier when playing music due to crest factor. Modern music has a crest factor around 9-12dB meaning roughly 1/6th the power you're expecting. So the 25wrms amplifier will actually make about 4wrms with music, or the 100wrms amp will make about 15wrms with music. Then assume roughly double that power if you start to clip a fair bit ... so 8wrms vs 30wrms if you're pushing music hard. The bigger amp would be a better match for your intended speakers if they are rated to handle 25wrms.

Also, a bigger amplifier will allow you to keep the gain knobs lower and hopefully reduce the hiss in the noise floor.

I actually met the RF engineers one year at CES, we hung and took a tour looking at some of the competitors stuff - and was very cool seeing their admiration of other brands, products, engineers. All my RF dealership experience is over a decade ago, they didn't have these full-range class D amps.

Do you remember who you got to meet? The company is full of wonderful people!

[Serieus]

If you’re not in a huge rush to order, I put in an order for a T1000x5AD yesterday and am planning to work on installing it next weekend. Should be able to follow up with some notes comparing to my RD900/5.

It’ll be powering Focal 6WM’s & Audiofrog GB10’s up front, and a JL 12TW3 for sub. May try out a pair of CDT Unity 8.0P’s that I got this week as well for fun. Still need to order up the T400x4AD and GB25’s for the final setup, but it’ll be awhile before my Valicar pods arrive so I’m not in a huge rush for that yet.

[geolemon]

Two thoughts:

You'll never get the rated power out of an amplifier when playing music due to crest factor. Modern music has a crest factor around 9-12dB meaning roughly 1/6th the power you're expecting. So the 25wrms amplifier will actually make about 4wrms with music, or the 100wrms amp will make about 15wrms with music. Then assume roughly double that power if you start to clip a fair bit ... so 8wrms vs 30wrms if you're pushing music hard. The bigger amp would be a better match for your intended speakers if they are rated to handle 25wrms.

Also, a bigger amplifier will allow you to keep the gain knobs lower and hopefully reduce the hiss in the noise floor.




Do you remember who you got to meet? The company is full of wonderful people!

I wish - that was between a decade and two ago... But I agree. The lack of pettiness and enthusiastic urge to check stuff out and admire what they saw was both refreshing and relatable.

I mean - I'm a geek about loudspeakers like all the other lifers - but I'm not even designing power supplies for amps (much less actual amp-side circuits) so it was awesome to meet these people worthy of being put on pedestals - and see they themselves were fans.

I believe it was the year before the Kicker Warhorse was released - they had a prototype that was massive and even that prototype chassis was impressive...
Googling that...
Must have been '06, says the Warhorse release was '07 and it wasn't out yet when we did those rounds.
Dan Wiggins was with us - he was my reason for being there, I was licensing XBL^2 and meeting the Destijl guys who were assembling our subs - and he was how we met up with that crew.
As they say - it's not what you know, it's who you know.

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[geolemon]

If you’re not in a huge rush to order, I put in an order for a T1000x5AD yesterday and am planning to work on installing it next weekend. Should be able to follow up with some notes comparing to my RD900/5.

It’ll be powering Focal 6WM’s & Audiofrog GB10’s up front, and a JL 12TW3 for sub. May try out a pair of CDT Unity 8.0P’s that I got this week as well for fun. Still need to order up the T400x4AD and GB25’s for the final setup, but it’ll be awhile before my Valicar pods arrive so I’m not in a huge rush for that yet.

Awesome, thanks.
Yep I'm still playing with speaker alignments in my basement "lab" - but I probably should start thinking about a target date for buying.

No rush, no, but - the weather is nice, snow melted, putting the summer tires on the cars this week...
It's getting to be a good time to pull that trigger!

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[DubScientist]

They might be too large for your application, but I'm running JL HD series amps, which are 10.74" W X 7.85" D X 1.93" H. I have three in a small storage space in my '09 Jetta Sportwagen (it's a daily driver, and the trunk had to be fully functional):



Having been "raised" on class A/B amps back in the 90's (Soundstream Reference, then Esoteric Audio D7s) , these JL class Ds sound just as nice to my (admittedly 50yr old) ears.

Good luck on your search!

[NoDestiny]

I've recently gone a similar route. I ditched my large Zapco amps, larger 15" sub to give me more room and less weight in my tiny underpowered and cramped 1.0L Insight. I bought the Polk PA D5000.5 for eventual bridged 200x2 for door midbass and 500x1 for the sub (going single 10"). Bought the Polk PA D4000.4 for 125x4 to midrange and tweets. Might go with the PA D2000.2 for rear fill eventually. Regardless, amps seem efficient and not quite as tiny as some of the more recent micro amps, but they definitely are smaller than amps of the past and don't cost an arm and a leg.