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Thread: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    As you might have seen from my build log thread(s) I'm busy auditioning wideband drivers in different alignments in a mocked up car interior, to choose the best experimentation path for an install focused on imaging.

    I'll have 1 (big) sub, four midbass, two widebands, and two tweeters (or supertweeters, depending on the widebands).
    9 channels total.

    A big limitation - it's my daily driver for my active adult life - I have next to zero room for an amp rack.

    I've been leaning toward a RF T1000x5ad and T400x4ad. Huge power, RFs legendary amp engineers, tiny footprint -
    Done, right? Sold.

    Well - I am pretty sold on the 5 channel for the sub and midbass.
    I'm torn on using a class D for the front stage - especially focusing on imaging like I am.

    Cosmetically - matching amps is always a "must have" - but not if it means missing my system goal.

    And the widebands and tweeters - they will only need 20w-40w of power each, depending on which I settle on. The amp is 100x4 - so I'll be running it WAY below clipping - miles of headroom, way better SQ specs than at rated power, etc...

    I just haven't heard one, and it's been a decade since I sold RF.

    I have these 4 channel gems in storage, but less powerful and I could fit both RF amps in their footprint. (Pics)

    We ALL already know the "class D" generalizations, that's not this discussion -
    With luck this shouldn't devolve into a "class A/B vs class D" discussion...!

    This specific comparison is THIS context:
    * a 25x4 A/B amp using ALL its power
    vs
    * a 100x4 relatively high-end (and modern) class D amp **being run at 1/4 it's rated power.** Maybe 1/3 at most.

    I'm still leaning towards picking up the T400x4ad - but thought I'd toss this out there to gather reactions... options... alternatives.
    ...and again, general and decades-old class-D stereotypes need not respond. Avoiding thread pollution to stay on topic of this specific use case comparison.

    Thoughts?

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by geolemon; 04-01-2021 at 01:35 PM.

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Re: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    I have heard a lot of great feedback around audio control amps. I just recently saw an install with one in a glove box. At my local dealer, they have one that is small, like fit it your hand small

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    Noob Serieus's Avatar
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    Re: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    I got to listen to a system running these amps several years back when I think they were relatively new to the market, so I don't really have a comparison of them vs. other amps...but there weren't any glaring issues (i.e. no noticeable hiss or anything) and they were mounted under the driver seat in a truck, I didn't hear the fans at all during the demo I got. I've been thinking of swapping my amp out for the same combo you're looking at so I can do a 3 way up front, the size and layout works out a bit better for me than my current JL RD900/5 while also having a bit more power across the board. I think they released with a much higher cost and I suspect that may be why they didn't catch on as well as some other amps.

    I noticed earlier this week that NVX has released a new MVP line of amps that look to have a similar footprint, but not as many models available. They don't have a 5 channel for example, I think (right now, at least) it's limited to 2/4/6 channel amps. Maybe worth a look - I've no doubt that the Rockford amps are probably built better and may be a little cleaner, but the NVX line is available for a much lower cost.
    https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...NVX-MVPA2.html
    https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...NVX-MVPA4.html
    https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...NVX-MVPA6.html

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    Pretty tiny & cheap - I'm doing a budget SQ build right now using these Toro Tech amps:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...I15GSZF0&psc=1
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...I15GSZF0&psc=1

    Previously did a build for the same guy with these Taramps:

    https://www.amazon.com/TARAMPS-Class...tronics&sr=1-3
    https://www.amazon.com/Taramps-Watts...tronics&sr=1-2

    It kinda surprised me how good these ^^^ sounded and how well they are performing!
    2019 Jeep Wrangler 2 Door - Morel Elate 3 way, Mmats HiFi 6150 & M2000.2, Hutchinson NDFEB 10", MiniDSP w/DL, Fiio X5

    #TRUMP2020

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    See, I don't think I'd take a chance on those...
    No, I shouldn't say that. I'd have a blast running those amps in an install, like a second car. I'm curious about ALL these tiny amps.

    EDIT: This guy is also intriguing, and matches the RF cosmetically pretty close: https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...icationSection
    So is the linked one that sent me there - can we believe their specs?

    This install though - is the culmination of about 20 years of chin rubbing, learning, experimenting, expanding boundaries, etc. I do want to make sure that my amps don't impede my efforts - I'm doing some experimenting, so I don't want my amps to be an unknown quantity.

    I actually met the RF engineers one year at CES, we hung and took a tour looking at some of the competitors stuff - and was very cool seeing their admiration of other brands, products, engineers. All my RF dealership experience is over a decade ago, they didn't have these full-range class D amps. But today, there's Helix, DLS, some high-end brands who have full-range class D, because technology does evolve, and switching components and circuits have evolved.
    Then those microscopic RF Power T-series amps appeared, and damn - they look good. And they have been test-benched, and in RF tradition, exceed their rated specs.

    So I'm pretty sold on those - I wouldn't want to go down in the quality spectrum, if you know what I mean.
    That being said, I suppose I should take a closer look at those Toro and NVX specs - my gut tells me the RF would be better in terms of not just headroom, but even at rated power, the distortion specs.
    I have a feeling that it'll be harder to find test bench tests for those too, but I'll look - thanks!


    I'm curious if anyone's used any of the RF Power T-series on front stage, anyone who was also a SQ enthusiast?
    And - if anyone has any suggestions for A/B SQ amps that have a small footprint?
    (lazy example - since I was on that SonicElectronic site: https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...icationSection)

    ...I believe those Audiocontrol amps are also class D. I'm an old-school AudioControl fan too, but I think I'd lean to the RF.
    Last edited by geolemon; 04-01-2021 at 08:41 PM.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    Not the most compact, but the 3 amps that finished in Group A in this shootout might fit your needs and they're all Class A/B. Sony XM-GS4, Zapco ST-4XSQ, and DLS CC44.

    I've been using the Sony XM-GS4 for over a year now for my mids and tweets in my truck. Love that amp so much that I picked up another one for my car.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttqllik75s...otout.pdf?dl=0
    '08 Tundra: Kenwood DDX9905s, Dayton DSP-408, Mosconi AS100.4, Sony XM-GS4, SI BM MKIII, SI TM65 MKI, SI M3 copper, SI M25
    '07 IS 350: Mark Levinson OEM HU, Dayton DSP-408, JL RD500/1, JL RD400/4, Sony XM-GS4, IDQ12v4, SI TM65 MKI, Morel CCWR254 (x3), Wavecor TW022WA01
    HT: Onkyo RZ-820, Dayton DSP-408, Crown XLi 1500, SI SQL-15, Polk Audio RT400, CS250S, FX300i, RT15i, and PSW350 (x2)

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    Thanks for that!
    What a killer comparison...
    I really, really appreciate that.

    The only thing I could wish for is if they had included the T400x4ad in that comparison to know where that actually stacks up directly.
    I had read this previously - obviously nothing but good stuff to say: https://www.pasmag.com/technology/te...sgate-t400x4ad

    You might have seen from my amp pics I'm a bit of a DLS fan... I have two DLS ultimate but they are a stereo and mono and relatively huge compared to these.

    They definitely don't match the RF cosmetically but there's an all DLS option from this line that I was considering-
    Two CC4s and a CC-1000.
    I could probably make room for that... Minor concerns that these Anarchies may be power-hungry, but on the other hand - I'm time-aligning four of them. I'm sure I don't need to push them to 99% limits.

    I had also considered the Zapco ST-4X since there's two models, one tuned for power and one tuned for SQ that would fit midbass and front stage, and the Zapco ST-850xm for the sub. I guess I'd been worried about Zapco reliability rumors lately - any Zapco dealers on here who know first hand?
    DLS?

    Thanks-

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by geolemon; 04-03-2021 at 10:59 AM.

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    Are you aware of the Biketronics amps ? Big thread over on the other site. Not quite as tiny as those micro amps but very small rated at 4*180 @ 4 ohms using Hypex class d modules that have been very well reviewed in home audio and used in a number of well regarded higher end amplifiers.
    I'm using one in my new install and its very nice - clear and dynamic.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    ...Minor concerns that these Anarchies may be power-hungry, but on the other hand - I'm time-aligning four of them. I'm sure I don't need to push them to 99% limits.....
    125-150 watts each as subwoofers (no high pass) will reach Xmax below about 30 hz. 300 watts each as midbasses (high passed at 40 hz), a pair will knock your socks off. That's all in 0.14 cubic foot sealed boxes for each one.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Tiny footprint SQ amp for front stage imaging

    Quote Originally Posted by preston View Post
    Are you aware of the Biketronics amps ? Big thread over on the other site. Not quite as tiny as those micro amps but very small rated at 4*180 @ 4 ohms using Hypex class d modules that have been very well reviewed in home audio and used in a number of well regarded higher end amplifiers.
    I'm using one in my new install and its very nice - clear and dynamic.
    I was going to mention Biketronics as well. That's the route I'm going, patiently waiting on a 180x4 Gold series (which also has gain pots) and a custom 3-channel (250x2@4 ohms, 700x1@2ohms). Each amp is only 7" x 5" or so. They are designed to survive in Harley fairings and have a lifetime warranty.

    They have a few other configurations, not all of them are shown on the website. In the same size chassis you can also get 250x4 or 700x2. There's also a 180x6 in a slightly larger case and some smaller 2-channel options.
    '18 VW Golf Sportwagen 4motion 6MT. Hiby RS6 to Helix DSP.3 (Balanced Analog). Amps: Biketronics BT4210 (210 x 4 mids/tweets), Biketronics BT3725 (250 x 2 midbasses, 700 x 1 sub). Mids: Satori MW13P-4 5" (Factory Door Locations). Tweets: Bliesma T25S-6 Silk-Dome 1" (Modded Factory A-Pillar Locations). Midbasses: Dayton Designer DSA175-8 6.5" in Ported Underseat Enclosures. Subs: 2 x Scanspeak Discovery 10" in Underfloor Sealed Enclosure.

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