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Thread: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/ETC Program

  1. Back To Top    #31
    Noob Jdunk54nl's Avatar
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    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/A Bunch of Other Program

    Quote Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
    I would eventually like to try this out. Can you go over the details about how I need to do this with a USB mic? I think you mentioned some piece of software that is needed somewhere in order to make this work with a USB mic? I'll have to go back through the thread.

    I'm very familiar with REW, but mainly for pink-noise RTA measurements. I've take sweeps a few times, but it was a major PITA, to be honest - I would MUCH rather be able to measure "live" phase instead of trying to use sweeps.

    I'm just looking for an idea of what I need hardware and software-wise - in order to use this app with a USB MIC successfully. Or would you recommend an XLR MIC instead? If that makes it easier, I don't mind spending the money if the USB mic method is "hack'ish".

    Thanks!
    It is posted a couple of times (even with pictures!) about how to do this, at least on a macbook. Windows will need to use asio4all for aggregate devices.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

  2. Back To Top    #32

    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/A Bunch of Other Program

    I'm just trying to understand this a little better from a hardware perspective - for WIndows devices.

    I'm not 100% clear on whether it's best to try to make a USB MIC work or just buy an XLR MIC instead. I don't want to go and buy a USB sound card and then realize a week later that I would have been better off if I bought an XLR MIC instead.

    It *sounds* like you're better off with an XLR MIC - someone also mentioned something about a "Behringer 1.5 channel" something or other along with the XLR MIC.

    Again, I just want to understand my options a little better *before* I purchase anything.

    So I'm looking for opinions on the best XLR mic and whatever other equipment I'd need for the XLR MIC if I go that route (assuming that I really am better off with an XLR MIC as opposed to using my UMIK-1 USB MIC).

    Thank you.

  3. Back To Top    #33
    Noob Jdunk54nl's Avatar
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    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/ETC Program

    100% buy an xlr microphone and xlr microphone interface if you can. Hands down no questions asked there.

    Motu m2 (or m4) or focusrite 2i2 (or 4i4) are great options with a dayton emm-6 microphone.

    However, interfaces currently are hard to find due to chip shortages.


    With that, most people with a usb microphone don't actually need to buy anything. They can use asio4all to make an aggregate device with an internal loopback (google this) and can then use the usb microphone they already have and get pretty decent results. Or a $5 usb sound card and headphone splitter and a aggregate loopback using that.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

  4. Back To Top    #34

    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/ETC Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post
    100% buy an xlr microphone and xlr microphone interface if you can. Hands down no questions asked there.

    Motu m2 (or m4) or focusrite 2i2 (or 4i4) are great options with a dayton emm-6 microphone.

    However, interfaces currently are hard to find due to chip shortages.


    With that, most people with a usb microphone don't actually need to buy anything. They can use asio4all to make an aggregate device with an internal loopback (google this) and can then use the usb microphone they already have and get pretty decent results. Or a $5 usb sound card and headphone splitter and a aggregate loopback using that.
    that’s exactly what I started with... the Behringer interfaces are cheap and ok... but the focusrite (I have a 2i2) are very much superior and you won’t need to upgrade for many years... For not too much more cash... and a Dayton mic is also good, I’d play with a Dayton for a start, I see a mic as an essential piece of kit and when I’m setting up an ultra, a z150.6ap and a few grands worth of drivers I didn’t think a cheap pro level mic at £220 and a £130 interface was too bad

    dont forget to aim the mic up and forwards not forwards! The angle of incidence of both drivers to the mic needs to be the same and a right angle to mids and tweeters with the mic tip at the middle of the ears is the only place that they will read the same response and phase

    think about a tweeter where the polar response changes as you come off axis from it... this is also evidenced by the polar response diagrams for the higher end mics, even with a 1/4 tip mic (isemcon or earthworks for example) it makes a small difference, and with a mic like the Dayton it is a 1/2” tip (Dayton/umik-1)!with a bigger capsule than a 1/4” so it compounds the error

  5. Back To Top    #35

    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/ETC Program

    Quote Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
    that’s exactly what I started with... the Behringer interfaces are cheap and ok... but the focusrite (I have a 2i2) are very much superior and you won’t need to upgrade for many years... For not too much more cash... and a Dayton mic is also good, I’d play with a Dayton for a start, I see a mic as an essential piece of kit and when I’m setting up an ultra, a z150.6ap and a few grands worth of drivers I didn’t think a cheap pro level mic at £220 and a £130 interface was too bad

    dont forget to aim the mic up and forwards not forwards! The angle of incidence of both drivers to the mic needs to be the same and a right angle to mids and tweeters with the mic tip at the middle of the ears is the only place that they will read the same response and phase

    think about a tweeter where the polar response changes as you come off axis from it... this is also evidenced by the polar response diagrams for the higher end mics, even with a 1/4 tip mic (isemcon or earthworks for example) it makes a small difference, and with a mic like the Dayton it is a 1/2” tip (Dayton/umik-1)!with a bigger capsule than a 1/4” so it compounds the error
    This is interesting as the IASCA RTA test had the mic tip pointing forward towards the windscreen.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. Back To Top    #36

    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/ETC Program

    Quote Originally Posted by SiW80 View Post
    This is interesting as the IASCA RTA test had the mic tip pointing forward towards the windscreen.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    but as long as all cars get measured like that and you set the eq for it it’s fine... however it won’t do a very good job of matching left to right as the right in a rhd with the mic pointing forward at/on the headrest is always more on axis so the top end is emphasised more on one side vs the other

  7. Back To Top    #37
    Noob Jdunk54nl's Avatar
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    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/ETC Program

    Quote Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
    think about a tweeter where the polar response changes as you come off axis from it... this is also evidenced by the polar response diagrams for the higher end mics, even with a 1/4 tip mic (isemcon or earthworks for example) it makes a small difference, and with a mic like the Dayton it is a 1/2” tip (Dayton/umik-1)!with a bigger capsule than a 1/4” so it compounds the error


    Isn't the dayton mic a 6mm capsule so 1/4"? The total area of the tip is bigger for sure on the emm-6 though (probably close to 1/2") if that is what you mean.

    https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...MaAhPvEALw_wcB

    From above link:
    Specifications: • Capsule type: 6 mm electret condenser • Polar pattern: omni-directional • Frequency response: 18 Hz - 20 kHz • Impedance: 200 ohms between pins 2 and 3 • Sensitivity at 1 kHz into 1K ohm: 10mV/Pa (-40 dBV, re. 0 dB = 1V/Pa) • Max SPL for 1% THD @ 1 kHz: 127 dB • S/N ratio: 70 dB A-weighted • Connector: gold plated XLR • Phantom power: +15V to +48V, 4 mA • Weight: 144 grams.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

  8. Back To Top    #38

    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/ETC Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post
    Isn't the dayton mic a 6mm capsule so 1/4"? The total area of the tip is bigger for sure on the emm-6 though (probably close to 1/2") if that is what you mean.

    https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...MaAhPvEALw_wcB

    From above link:
    Specifications: • Capsule type: 6 mm electret condenser • Polar pattern: omni-directional • Frequency response: 18 Hz - 20 kHz • Impedance: 200 ohms between pins 2 and 3 • Sensitivity at 1 kHz into 1K ohm: 10mV/Pa (-40 dBV, re. 0 dB = 1V/Pa) • Max SPL for 1% THD @ 1 kHz: 127 dB • S/N ratio: 70 dB A-weighted • Connector: gold plated XLR • Phantom power: +15V to +48V, 4 mA • Weight: 144 grams.
    It’s a 6mm capsule, and a 1/2” tip, so my isemcon with a 1/4” tip must be 4mm I presume, so less directional, but even with a 4mm or whatever size capsule it still Varys off axis depending on freq, obv at lower freqs it doesn’t really matter...

    if I can find the isemcon document that shows even a fine tipped mics phase and amplitude difference at various angles

  9. Back To Top    #39

    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/ETC Program

    https://www.isemcon.com/datasheets/EMX7150-US-r04.pdf

    it seems to be a marked difference somewhere between 8 and 16khz, but if you double the size of the capsule the freq halves so 4-8lhz would be roughly similar

  10. Back To Top    #40

    Re: Open Sound Meter RTA/Phase/ETC Program

    I have the comparison with both Dayton and isemcon mics at the same spot and angle in the corsa, it doesn’t look much, but it varys phase also due to levels being different, and the isemcon is also far more accurate without a calibration file vs my Dayton and umik-1

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