Helix Pro Mk2 DSP Tuning and Microphone

[danimal86]

Ah in that case,

The above still applies

sub 0-80hz

Midbass 80-400

Midrange 400-3000 (2x fs of tweeter = 3000hz)

Tweeter 3000hz

Thanks!!!! Once this storm passes, i'll be ready to throw the mic in and tune this sucker!

[Jdunk54nl]

Cool. Tune with it like that first. Then listen to it for a while. Once you have listened you can start making changes based on what you hear (or don't hear).


A good way to practice this if you have a windows computer or older mac that can run 10.5 programs. A word of caution though, once you learn how to listen...you can't unlearn so you have to be able to forgo issues you hear and still enjoy music for music.

http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/

[danimal86]

Cool. Tune with it like that first. Then listen to it for a while. Once you have listened you can start making changes based on what you hear (or don't hear).


A good way to practice this if you have a windows computer or older mac that can run 10.5 programs. A word of caution though, once you learn how to listen...you can't unlearn so you have to be able to forgo issues you hear and still enjoy music for music.

http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/

Dang, i dont have any older pc's anymore. I'll see if i can figure out how to make it work.
I've actually worried about that last part. I dont want to obsess about it so much so that i can't enjoy music anymore.

I loaded up my helix profile and looked back at what values Andy from Audiofrog gave me for a starting crossover point, i'm wondering if i should use those or the ones you gave.

Andy's:
Sub 0-60 (i think i'll have to use 80 for jazzi's spreadsheet)
Midbass 80-350
Midrange 350-3500
Tweeters 3500

They are close, just shifted 500hz

[Jdunk54nl]

I loaded up my helix profile and looked back at what values Andy from Audiofrog gave me for a starting crossover point, i'm wondering if i should use those or the ones you gave.

Andy's:
Sub 0-60 (i think i'll have to use 80 for jazzi's spreadsheet)
Midbass 80-350
Midrange 350-3500
Tweeters 3500

They are close, just shifted 500hz

Tomatoes tomatoes. Andy's sub 0-60 in the dsp helps with hitting the target curve better of 80hz crossover for the sub to midbass. So in Justin's spreadsheet you will still want to put 80hz for the sub.

Justin's spreadsheet are acoustical crossover targets, the actual dsp settings will vary.

Example: You want an acoustical 80hz LR 24db/oct crossover for your sub to woofer to keep phase as right as possible between them. That might mean you need to set a 50hz dsp setting to achieve that target curve. Or a Butterworth 12db/oct dsp setting, or whatever works best to hit that target slope prior to any eq.

Do this for all speakers. I spend the most time doing this when tuning, trying out different crossover types and slopes until it matches the best. Some speakers don't even need any EQ after that. My woofers in my truck just have crossover setting set and like 1 band of EQ to get it to match the curve.

This was my wifes car, It is an 80hz LR 24db/oct crossover between sub and woofer and 2500hz LR 24db/oct between my woofer and tweeter (2 way setup) for acoustical in the listening position.. NONE of these in the dsp are set to 80hz/2500hz and I do not believe any of them in the dsp are set to 24db/oct either. They are are mix of slopes and even some random crossover style, butterworth, linkwitz or whatever else fit the best to get the acoustical response.

[danimal86]

Tomatoes tomatoes. Andy's sub 0-60 in the dsp helps with hitting the target curve better of 80hz crossover for the sub to midbass. So in Justin's spreadsheet you will still want to put 80hz for the sub.

Justin's spreadsheet are acoustical crossover targets, the actual dsp settings will vary.

Example: You want an acoustical 80hz LR 24db/oct crossover for your sub to woofer to keep phase as right as possible between them. That might mean you need to set a 50hz dsp setting to achieve that target curve. Or a Butterworth 12db/oct dsp setting, or whatever works best to hit that target slope prior to any eq.

Do this for all speakers. I spend the most time doing this when tuning, trying out different crossover types and slopes until it matches the best. Some speakers don't even need any EQ after that. My woofers in my truck just have crossover setting set and like 1 band of EQ to get it to match the curve.

This was my wifes car, It is an 80hz LR 24db/oct crossover between sub and woofer and 2500hz LR 24db/oct between my woofer and tweeter (2 way setup) for acoustical in the listening position.. NONE of these in the dsp are set to 80hz/2500hz and I do not believe any of them in the dsp are set to 24db/oct either. They are are mix of slopes and even some random crossover style, butterworth, linkwitz or whatever else fit the best to get the acoustical response.

thats really interesting. It sounds like its going to be a lot more of an iterative process than i thought it would be.

So, just to get the basic idea of how to approach it:
Setup rew with mic calibration
load target curve
isolate each speaker and play mono pink noise and adjust to match curve and record
do over with all the other speakers.

[Jdunk54nl]

thats really interesting. It sounds like its going to be a lot more of an iterative process than i thought it would be.

So, just to get the basic idea of how to approach it:
Setup rew with mic calibration
load target curve
isolate each speaker and play mono pink noise and adjust to match curve and record
do over with all the other speakers.

Exactly. Match all of the curve the best you can starting with crossover and then applying as minimal eq as possible.

You see what my graphs look like above, they are no where near "perfect" with peaks and dips. This is the best sound in my wife's car yet. Even she said that. I went for more perfect before and it never sounds as good, you eq the life out of things that way. I think her woofers have like 6 to 7 bands of eq after getting the crossover as best as possible and the tweeters are like 2 bands after crossover. My truck has like 2-4 bands on every driver but it is a 3 way with better equipment, placement, and aiming.

It is iterative at first for sure. Once you get to a point, it only becomes iterative if you learn something new or get new gear constantly. But most don't need new gear, they need to learn to use the tools better.

[danimal86]

Exactly. Match all of the curve the best you can starting with crossover and then applying as minimal eq as possible.

You see what my graphs look like above, they are no where near "perfect" with peaks and dips. This is the best sound in my wife's car yet. Even she said that. I went for more perfect before and it never sounds as good, you eq the life out of things that way. I think her woofers have like 6 to 7 bands of eq after getting the crossover as best as possible and the tweeters are like 2 bands after crossover. My truck has like 2-4 bands on every driver but it is a 3 way with better equipment, placement, and aiming.

It is iterative at first for sure. Once you get to a point, it only becomes iterative if you learn something new or get new gear constantly. But most don't need new gear, they need to learn to use the tools better.

Man i cant wait to get out there and start messing around with them. Thanks for your help, i feel like i'm starting to understand the process a lot better now, i was ready to take it to a local shop or have someone do a remote tune, but i feel like i can get it licked myself.

Do you measure, stop, adjust band, measure, stop.....or do you keep the pink noise going, and adjust without stopping anything? Also, does it matter if i'm in the truck while i'm doing the adjusting?

[Jdunk54nl]

Man i cant wait to get out there and start messing around with them. Thanks for your help, i feel like i'm starting to understand the process a lot better now, i was ready to take it to a local shop or have someone do a remote tune, but i feel like i can get it licked myself.

Do you measure, stop, adjust band, measure, stop.....or do you keep the pink noise going, and adjust without stopping anything? Also, does it matter if i'm in the truck while i'm doing the adjusting?

I measure, turn off the noise (because I don't want to sit there and listen to it even with my 30db hearing protection). I then use REW's EQ function and try to get what I want with as few of bands as possible.


I've found I get the best results by reclining drivers seat as much as possible and same with passenger and then sitting in the back with my microphone on a 1x1 board to move it around the listening position.

[danimal86]

I measure, turn off the noise (because I don't want to sit there and listen to it even with my 30db hearing protection). I then use REW's EQ function and try to get what I want with as few of bands as possible.


I've found I get the best results by reclining drivers seat as much as possible and same with passenger and then sitting in the back with my microphone on a 1x1 board to move it around the listening position.

So that was another question i had about how loud to play the pink noise....sounds like its gonna need to be cranked up pretty good.

[Jdunk54nl]

So that was another question i had about how loud to play the pink noise....sounds like its gonna need to be cranked up pretty good.

I use a volume loud enough to get good results and above noise floor. I don't blare it. I just find pink noise annoying and also value my hearing so I wear ear protection a lot these days.