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Thread: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

  1. Back To Top    #31

    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    I have a sort of analogous problem potentially, with my install - here's what I'm thinking to resolve it:

    I may also choose to add some differential rear fill channels - I'd build tiny pods somewhere in the rear hatch for some 3" or 4" widebands, and would need two more channels to power them as well. Creating highly-delayed, differential-only rear fill requires DSP.
    Since the Helix only offers 10 channels of RTA and 8 channels of amplification, that means I'd have to choose to use it for either the sub, or the differential rear fill. I'd start with the sub.

    For the differential rear fill, there are Dayton and miniDSP models that are cheap, that offer the 2 channels of DSP that I need.
    Think about doing something like that - you could buy the 2x4 for less than $100

  2. Back To Top    #32
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    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    While I have no experience with the 4 ohm versions, the 8 ohm anarchys need power. Lots of it. IB in doors, Kenwood KAC X4R bridged, (300@4) wasn't enough. In kick pods it was barely adequate. YMMV


  3. Back To Top    #33

    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    So that might be a motivator to go the RF Power route.
    That mighty mouse 5 channel blew the rated power away, I'm sure the 4 channel version would as well.

    I haven't gotten a reply yet from one of our vendors here on a quote for the two Helix amps, but it's only been less than a week.

    My suspicion is that quote will come within spitting distance of the RF pair plus a miniDSP 8x12.
    So if I can't get my hands on the Helix gear, maybe fate will send me the RF route instead.
    I'd prefer choice over fate, but we will see.

    Were yours in enclosures? If anything that could reduce their efficiency, but I've read that seems best for them.
    Either way - 300wx4 seems pretty excessive! That's subwoofer wattage there... Four subs, the way I power subs

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

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    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    Mine were 8 ohm, so only seeing ~ 1/2 that power. Started in doors, migrated to kick pods.



    ~.3 cu^ft, IIRC


  5. Back To Top    #35

    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    And with Morel grilles - looks cool!

    Were those kicks sealed? If so, how much space did they have? Seems like about .2-.25 has been suggested, but I haven't done any modeling.

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    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    Interesting - well, I hear plenty of compliments on the Dayton's SQ also - and their use in some high-end cabinets (of which specifically I can't find now for the life of me) makes me think they are pretty refined as well. I am curious. I definitely haven't seen a reviewer compare them in any sort of A/B capacity to Focal K2's, or really any speaker that I'm personally experienced with. I'd be massively impressed if they were on-par with those drivers - but you never know. It's very possible. It's a set of 6.5's that I hold on a very high pedestal in my mind. If I had four of those sitting around (or even found a good price on), I wouldn't even have considered this. So, to scratch that XBL itch, I supposed I'm glad I don't.

    When I sold them, I was really impressed with the whole line. I became a fan. Each price point was more than competitive. I think I mentioned in here, I'm going to be using my old TN52's that I've really been saving for an aspirational install like this one.
    I'm curious, since I never have yet - have you heard the Flax series?
    I have heard the Flax series. That it also an impressive sounding driver set. I've actually heard the Flax and the K2 line go toe to toe...and it was a tough challenge to pick a set that sounded "better." The Flax had more of a warm sound where as the K2 had a more precise sound to them. They both sounded GREAT...but they're just a "different" great sound.

    I actually have a measured report using measurements from a mic array and really baller software displaying the performance difference between the 6.5" KX2 and the 8" RS-225. The RS-225 clearly dominated the Focal in my particular application...not because the Dayton may or may not a "better" driver, but more because I couldn't get the 6.5" driver to perform WHERE and HOW I needed it to. I also ran a 6.5" Dayton driver (DC160-4). They also had stellar performance on paper, but just couldn't reach the performance needed IN the car.



    Lemans Blue ZO6. Pioneer HU, Focal and Dayton drivers, JL VXi, JL XD, TW5's...and on and on...

  7. Back To Top    #37
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    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    And with Morel grilles - looks cool!

    Were those kicks sealed? If so, how much space did they have? Seems like about .2-.25 has been suggested, but I haven't done any modeling.
    Yes, sealed. I was thinking they were about .3 cu^ft, but may have been smaller. They did really well from 70-2khz IF you have enough power.

    disclaimer: I listen loud, but don't allow it to diminish quality. Usually a Morel large format tweet with with big power to mids and sub(s). I expect a lot from a mid and the Anarchy was up to the task.


  8. Back To Top    #38

    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    I pulled the trigger!

    I was pretty tempted by the Evil 6.5s - so many good features plus underhung... but no measurements makes me skeptical, and it doesn't matter anyway because they are out of stock until basically 2021.

    Between the Dayton RS-180 and Exodus Anarchy, they were honestly way closer than I thought. For the extra technology and excursion advantage of the Anarchy, the Dayton have an even more proven track record, including use in a four-digit high-end home cabinet.

    In the end, two things kept pulling on me:

    1) From the OEM work that I've done with XBL subs back in the day, all the talks and engineering work with Dan Wiggins, I've always been an XBL fan, and really always been dying to play with some XBL midwoofers.

    2) If they don't work out - I can make a subwoofer or two out of them for my house. Neither sound bar in my house has a sub yet. They'll be fun toys no matter what.
    If the Dayton didn't work out... More clutter in my storage.

    Also, reading - I don't recall if it was the Dayton or the Evil, but someone mentioned they heard chuffing from the air gap around the pole piece. I'm skeptical that's even true, but can't say I didn't think about it - and realized that I've only used drivers with phase plugs in midrange and up - never for high-excursion use.

    So i pulled the trigger on four Exodus Anarchy.


    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    I'll post my DATSv3 measurement of these Thursday night, Dec. 3rd. I can tell you that my eyeball and ruler measurement of Xmax looked to be 9 mm one-way, two more notches of volume led to the voice coil smacking the backplate. Still not bad for 66 bucks each.

  9. Back To Top    #39

    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    Awesome, thanks!

    On the Xmax front... I suspect these might be that classic case where a long motor design reaches the excursion limits of the chassis. It's a scary place to be, when there's no warning... Super clean, super clean, super clean... Then buzzzz.

    The good news is - I'm not using these for sub duty. I'll definitely have these playing through a high-pass filter.
    I probably realistically won't be pushing them past the 5mm-6mm Xmax of any normal "long throw" midbass.
    I mostly want that flat BL curve.

    That being said - it will be interesting to see if I have the usual 70hz null, and I am thinking "maybe these can help fill in that hole" - I'll have 5 discrete locations in the car that possibly could play down to 65hz, 60hz, and that alone can (in theory) address the complex cancellations that produce that null. I'm even considering picking up four 8" passive radiators to experiment with, though I'd want them to be invisible.

    Somewhere around here I have some Scan speak Variovents, too. I'll have to find those.

    Lots of playing to do - your data could be a big help, so thanks.



    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

  10. Back To Top    #40
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    Re: Narrowing down the midbass to a few.

    I'll be living vicariously through you because I just received my 7 inch woofers from DIY (Anarchy) yesterday and I"m a ways out from my build. Hopefully they work out like we both want.

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    Awesome, thanks!

    On the Xmax front... I suspect these might be that classic case where a long motor design reaches the excursion limits of the chassis. It's a scary place to be, when there's no warning... Super clean, super clean, super clean... Then buzzzz.

    The good news is - I'm not using these for sub duty. I'll definitely have these playing through a high-pass filter.
    I probably realistically won't be pushing them past the 5mm-6mm Xmax of any normal "long throw" midbass.
    I mostly want that flat BL curve.

    That being said - it will be interesting to see if I have the usual 70hz null, and I am thinking "maybe these can help fill in that hole" - I'll have 5 discrete locations in the car that possibly could play down to 65hz, 60hz, and that alone can (in theory) address the complex cancellations that produce that null. I'm even considering picking up four 8" passive radiators to experiment with, though I'd want them to be invisible.

    Somewhere around here I have some Scan speak Variovents, too. I'll have to find those.

    Lots of playing to do - your data could be a big help, so thanks.



    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
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