Less than three weeks to nationwide riots....

[jettyman]

Unless we're talking about the Patriot Act and then it was Conservatives infringing on Constitutional rights.

Jeez now we're talking about the Patriot Act. Remember to keep things in perspective. Why was the Patriot Act enacted? Was was it's purpose? When was it created? And then remember that our Constitution's framers said "security of the nation is the foremost responsibility of the federal government". Was the Patriot Act perfect, of course not but it was created when the trade centers were attacked in the worst terrorist attack in history. Our gov't needed a legal means of trying to prevent subsequent and future attacks. As mentioned the Patriot Act was passed overwhelmingly on a bi-partisan vote. There was wide support for the Patriot Act when it was enacted. You have to remember the mindset of the general population during the days following 911. The nation was in complete shock and expected the gov't to do practically anything possible to try to prevent something like that from ever happening again, hence the wide public support and overwhelming bi-partisan vote. Sure, some were concerned about the surveillance aspect of it but agreed drastic actions sometimes require drastic measures. We can look back more recently and criticize it as an infringement of our rights and it was in some ways. Sometimes you take the good with the bad. Do you have access to any intelligence that was obtained by provisions of the Patriot Act that might have prevented future attacks? I doubt anyone on here does. The Patriot Act will always be controversial. Protecting a country is a hard thing to do and sometimes lines get crossed. Hindsight is always 20/20. Just remember when and why it happened and what the results of it might have been.

[tRidiot]

I have a son and I am terribly sad for him that he is going to have to live with this crud. He's 15, so he's going to be in college in a few years - and most of our colleges these days are cesspools of leftist thought, in my opinion. Luckily we've been able to instill good values in him and hopefully he'll be able to stand up for himself and survive while listening to their blathering BS for however long he is in college. <sigh>

[Grinder]

I have a son and I am terribly sad for him that he is going to have to live with this crud. He's 15, so he's going to be in college in a few years - and most of our colleges these days are cesspools of leftist ideology, in my opinion. Luckily we've been able to instill good values in him and hopefully he'll be able to stand up for himself and survive while listening to their blathering BS for however long he is in college. <sigh>

FIFY

[Euphonic]

Jeez now we're talking about the Patriot Act. Remember to keep things in perspective. Why was the Patriot Act enacted? Was was it's purpose? When was it created? And then remember that our Constitution's framers said "security of the nation is the foremost responsibility of the federal government". Was the Patriot Act perfect, of course not but it was created when the trade centers were attacked in the worst terrorist attack in history. Our gov't needed a legal means of trying to prevent subsequent and future attacks. As mentioned the Patriot Act was passed overwhelmingly on a bi-partisan vote. There was wide support for the Patriot Act when it was enacted. You have to remember the mindset of the general population during the days following 911. The nation was in complete shock and expected the gov't to do practically anything possible to try to prevent something like that from ever happening again, hence the wide public support and overwhelming bi-partisan vote. Sure, some were concerned about the surveillance aspect of it but agreed drastic actions sometimes require drastic measures. We can look back more recently and criticize it as an infringement of our rights and it was in some ways. Sometimes you take the good with the bad. Do you have access to any intelligence that was obtained by provisions of the Patriot Act that might have prevented future attacks? I doubt anyone on here does. The Patriot Act will always be controversial. Protecting a country is a hard thing to do and sometimes lines get crossed. Hindsight is always 20/20. Just remember when and why it happened and what the results of it might have been.

Yep, I brought up the Patriot Act. Did the Patriot Act violate any Constitutional rights? I know when and why it happened. How old do you think I am? My point is that, during that time, people found it acceptable to shred the Constitution just a bit to help with the safety of our country. Sounds similar to the story liberals use when they're looking for reasons to dispose of the 2nd Amendment. If you agree with the Patriot Act, congrats. That's something you and Pelosi Galore agree on. Maybe you should set up a brunch date.

[Grinder]

Yep, I brought up the Patriot Act. Did the Patriot Act violate any Constitutional rights? I know when and why it happened. How old do you think I am? My point is that, during that time, people found it acceptable to shred the Constitution just a bit to help with the safety of our country. Sounds similar to the story liberals use when they're looking for reasons to dispose of the 2nd Amendment. If you agree with the Patriot Act, congrats. That's something you and Pelosi Galore agree on. Maybe you should set up a brunch date.

Exactly.

[jettyman]

Yep, I brought up the Patriot Act. Did the Patriot Act violate any Constitutional rights? I know when and why it happened. How old do you think I am? My point is that, during that time, people found it acceptable to shred the Constitution just a bit to help with the safety of our country. Sounds similar to the story liberals use when they're looking for reasons to dispose of the 2nd Amendment. If you agree with the Patriot Act, congrats. That's something you and Pelosi Galore agree on. Maybe you should set up a brunch date.

So you disagreed with the Patriot Act in Oct 2001 when it was passed? I never took a position on it one way or the other. I can tell you I was in Alaska when it happened (very early in the morning in Alaska) talking to my mom and putting on my uniform knowing I was about to get a call telling me to get to base as soon as possible. And also knowing I was going to war. I wasn't too much worried about the Patriot Act at the time.

[Euphonic]

So you disagreed with the Patriot Act in Oct 2001 when it was passed? I never took a position on it one way or the other. I can tell you I was in Alaska when it happened (very early in the morning in Alaska) talking to my mom and putting on my uniform knowing I was about to get a call telling me to get to base as soon as possible. And also knowing I was going to war. I wasn't too much worried about the Patriot Act at the time.

Yes, I disagreed with it. Do you support giving up rights in the name of safety?

[jettyman]

Yes, I disagreed with it. Do you support giving up rights in the name of safety?

Not sure I buy that. You would have been one of the VERY few at the time if that was the case. Every situation is different. And everything is within reason. I gave up some rights when I joined the military and every day I served so that's hard to say. Would I give up a right temporarily to save my neighbor, to save a child, to protect my country. Yes/yes/yes

[jettyman]

Yes, I disagreed with it. Do you support giving up rights in the name of safety?

If someone told you to kill someone, would you?

[Grinder]

I have come to realize that government programs rarely if ever achieve their stated goals, and that they tend to achieve the opposite result (i.e. their intended result?) In my view, the ironically named Patriot Act is such a program.