Opinions on full format tweeters ?

[preston]

I used to not believe in spending too much budget for tweeters. I first got back into car audio when Scott Buwalda/Hybrid Audio was making waves (2007) and one of his methodologies (mids in the kicks were still quite popular) was to have a very wideband mid-range so there wasn't a transition to the tweeters in the middle of the vocal range. This made sense to me and with the availabliltity of wideband mid-ranges I thought of tweeters as an afterthought, for 5k and up only and I don't hear above 10k anyway.
But I've now come around almost full circle and believe that tweeters have the most effect on the magical sprinkle of music where you just smile to yourself. And I also believe in taking "load" off the mid-ranges, ie not asking them to do to much, and making the most of your tweeters, so I am generally crossing more like 3k these days.

I've been running the well regarded ScanSpeak d3004/6020 tweeters in my 2 vehicles and have no complaints, although I've been very curious to try the berrylium equivalents (D3004/6040).

I'm building a new vehicle (Chrysler 300c) and as part of the celebration I'm thinking of moving up in tweeters. Obviously the small format ScanSpeak is the perfect size for the car and very easy to package, and choosing the Belly model would be perfectly fine decision.
(I also have my eye on the Accuton cell tweeters, although unfortunately the new car specific driver is out of my budget as is the Focal Utopia M).

But I keep thinking about some big delicious full format tweeters, yes they'd be a bit obnoxious considering the mids are in the dash and totally stealth, but this post isn't about those considerations.

If I went full format it would probably be the Satori TW-29BN as its also belly and comes highly recommended by some well regarded people on the other forum, and because my mids and woofs are Satori so that would be kind of cool. I've also seen many of the Scanspeak full format tweeters highly regarded, and the Dynaudio 110 would be in the picture as well if I saw some used come up.

I always kind of smirk at posts that are basically what speaker should I buy, and I guess this is just a gussied up version of the same post,
but mostly I'm just curious if there is any significant advantage or magic to a full format, or is it just a standard home audio legacy form factor ? especially in light of the ugliness of mounting it in a car and not trying to cross any lower than 2500 ?

[dumdum]

Do you find the 602000 tweeters a bit spitty/smeared when given some stick? I have yet to find a nice level for them, the sb acoustics sb29rdnc c-0004 seemed a lot nicer under pressure so to speak, the 602000 have a little more sparkle... but it’s maybe a little too much level on my 602000... just curious about your impressions about the little fellas??

i will shortly be running the satori 9.5” and have the mw16p-4 in my dash currently, I may run to the sb29 beryllium soon if the 9.5” work out well ��

[preston]

I"m very pleased with them but my previous experience is only with horns, generic component speaker set tweeters, and an old set of Hybrid Audio L1V1 tweeters. Like I said I previously didn't put a lot of stock in tweeters and even experimented with running tweeterless (IMO this wasn't very successful even with my hearing cutoff above 10k).
But to me they sound almost magical sometimes already with cymbals and snare drum brushes sprinkling through the air like little air bursts of sprinkly sound. Hence why I'm curious if there is even more "magic" to be unlocked.
As far as volume, I rarely listen at very high volumes and I mostly listen to Jazz so not a lot of stress on the components. When I do crank up rock music I've never noticed any strain in my system. These are fairly beefy tweeters considering they would still be considered small format. Body is almost 2" across even if they are officlally just a 1" dome.

[SublimeZ]

My best systems have used large format Morel Tweets. The cymbals and bells just kind of hung in the air. The intro to Robin Trower- Bridge of Sighs is a good indicator, as is Dire Straits-Water of Love. I've demoed lots of very good cars, but rarely did they have that magic at the top.

[nadams5755]

full format tweeters have a naturalness which you don't get with smaller format tweeters. it's most apparent to me in attack+decay and high frequency extension (gives that natural airiness).

if you've got the space and skills to put them in, i say go for it

moving the crossovers up to like 5khz ensures the frequency is well into the level-based localization (instead of lower frequency phase-based localization), and really makes it easier to lock-in upper midrange frequency placement. however, it works better if the midrange is more on-axis to avoid beaming issues.

but if you want some lower-frequency extension without the saucer full-format tweeter, take a look at the scan deep-well tweeters (although that usually presents a different problem but can be avoidable).

[ckirocz28]

I"m very pleased with them but my previous experience is only with horns, generic component speaker set tweeters, and an old set of Hybrid Audio L1V1 tweeters. Like I said I previously didn't put a lot of stock in tweeters and even experimented with running tweeterless (IMO this wasn't very successful even with my hearing cutoff above 10k).
But to me they sound almost magical sometimes already with cymbals and snare drum brushes sprinkling through the air like little air bursts of sprinkly sound. Hence why I'm curious if there is even more "magic" to be unlocked.
As far as volume, I rarely listen at very high volumes and I mostly listen to Jazz so not a lot of stress on the components. When I do crank up rock music I've never noticed any strain in my system. These are fairly beefy tweeters considering they would still be considered small format. Body is almost 2" across even if they are officlally just a 1" dome.

I have no experience with large format tweets or widebands, but your description of the "magic" you're looking for reminds me of the effect of getting the acoustic xover slopes dialed in perfectly between the mids and tweets, which I imagine would be a non-issue if they were one driver.

[preston]

I have no experience with large format tweets or widebands, but your description of the "magic" you're looking for reminds me of the effect of getting the acoustic xover slopes dialed in perfectly between the mids and tweets, which I imagine would be a non-issue if they were one driver.

Certainly widebands have their place - I've seen and "heard" (on youtube via phone recording) some very nice systems using some of the small Hybrid 2" and other small format widebands. But I agree with PSSounds Peter who kind of says " yes you can do it, but for ultimate fidelity you want a tweeter". However I am sure there is a lot to be said for not having the frequencies hand off from one driver to another. Or for example a coincidental driver (ie a co-ax that doesn't block the midrange).

nadams5755 I was kind ot thinking along the same lines, it seems a full format tweeter is the no compromise approach. The difficulty of our hobby is there is only one way to find out and I'd hate to audition an $800 set of Satori or whatever high end tweets and then decide the giant bulge on my apillars isn't worth the small advantage over a Scan D3004 or other small format. However maybe something with a pedigree like a used set of Esotars that I know I could sell for what I paid could be a way to give it a whirl. I will have to spend many hours auditioning the different tweeter locations as it s anyway right ? I appreciate the input. Or maybe I should try a ribbon ? ha ha

[preston]

I guess another advantage to a full format is it would be easy to swap drivers due to the standard mounting, whereas if you mold in a cup for one of the smaller tweeters its difficult to change things out as they all seem to be slightly different sizes.

[JCsAudio]

Something like this Wavecor tweeter would do it if you could fit it. https://www.parts-express.com/waveco...-ohm--298-1120

[Ge0]

Certainly widebands have their place - I've seen and "heard" (on youtube via phone recording) some very nice systems using some of the small Hybrid 2" and other small format widebands. But I agree with PSSounds Peter who kind of says " yes you can do it, but for ultimate fidelity you want a tweeter". However I am sure there is a lot to be said for not having the frequencies hand off from one driver to another. Or for example a coincidental driver (ie a co-ax that doesn't block the midrange).

nadams5755 I was kind ot thinking along the same lines, it seems a full format tweeter is the no compromise approach. The difficulty of our hobby is there is only one way to find out and I'd hate to audition an $800 set of Satori or whatever high end tweets and then decide the giant bulge on my apillars isn't worth the small advantage over a Scan D3004 or other small format. However maybe something with a pedigree like a used set of Esotars that I know I could sell for what I paid could be a way to give it a whirl. I will have to spend many hours auditioning the different tweeter locations as it s anyway right ? I appreciate the input. Or maybe I should try a ribbon ? ha ha

Well, there is a set of Esotars for sale on the other site right now. Sh!t or get off the pot man ...

Ge0