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Thread: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    I have a Subaru Ascent with an active 2-way setup. I previously had used tweeters (SB29RDNC) and Alpine Z15W (5.25") for my front stage powered by a helix p six. I recently made the switch to a wideband (the Audiofrog GS25) in the stock corner dash location and have really like avoiding the rainbow effect with all of the sound >= 300 Hz up on top of the dash. I don't feel that the top end is lacking with these speakers.

    I couldn't help myself though, and I got the HAT Unity U2 speakers as well. I thought I'd post a comparison for those thinking of these two speakers.

    Specifications: GS25 U2
    Nominal Impedance: 4 ohm 4 ohm
    RMS Power Handling (w/ suggested crossover): 70 W 75 W
    Sensitivity (2.83 V/1 M): 87 dB 80 dB
    Recommended High Pass Filter Frequency and Slope: >= 200 Hz, >= 12 dB/oct >= 250 Hz, >= 24 db/oct
    Diameter (mounting holes): 71 mm 68.6 mm
    Diameter (basket): 61 mm 57.8 mm
    Sd: 23 cm2 0.01386 cm2
    Mms: 3.21 g 1.034 g
    Cms: 242 uM/N 766 μM/N
    Vas: 0.181 liters 0.21 liters
    Fs: 180.5 Hz 165 Hz
    BL: 3.38 TM 1.9 TM
    Qms: 7.07 2.155
    Qes: 0.73 1.07
    Qts: 0.66 0.715
    Xmax (1-way linear): 4 mm 2.5 mm (2-way)
    Voice coil diamter: 25 mm 20 mm
    Frame/body material: Metal Cast ABS

    What stands out (to me) from above is that:
    - the U2 has a slightly lower Fs despite being a little smaller in diameter
    - the xmax of the audiofrog is greater than the U2, and if the U2 is truly 2-way, than by a sizable amount
    - the GS25 is more efficient

    Here are their published frequency response graphs:

    Audiofrog GS25
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    U2
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    What stands out when comparing their frequency response graphs above is that:
    - above 250 hz, the GS25 varies less from the lowest valley to highest peak (82-89 dB); so a range of ~7 dB) where the U2 varies from 76 to 86 (so a range of ~10 dB)
    - the U2 seems to rise generally from 2K to 10 kHz
    - the GS25 has a noticeable peak at ~16 kHz

    I then took measurements in my car with no EQ applied and no crossover applied for each driver (left and right side) to compare their response curves in car to give people an idea of what sort of tuning would be needed.

    I actually was a little surprised:

    GS25 - Left side - no EQ, no crossovers
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    U2 - Left side - no EQ, no crossovers - same volume / levels at head unit and within DSP/amp
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    Both GS25 and U2 - Left side - no EQ, no crossovers - displayed on same graph
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    What strikes me about the above is that:
    - the rising response of the U2's response curve (in the published specs) appears to level off on it's own while in car - could this be engineered by design (as it is made to be played facing a windshield)?
    - the GS25 has a peak around 10 kHz where the U2 does not
    - the U2 does NOT rolloff the top end as quickly as the GS25
    - the GS25 seems to be louder below 4kHz - maybe this is due to its better efficiency? Maybe this is due to its better xmax (as you need more xmax at lower frequencies to maintain the same volume)?
    - the GS25 has a greater peak at ~200 Hz which is in the downward crossover slope (it does need to be EQ'ed out)

    GS25 - Right side - no EQ, no crossovers set
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    U2 - Right side - no EQ, no crossovers set
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    Both GS25 and U2 - Right side - no EQ, no crossovers set
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    What strikes me about the above on the right side is that:
    - it's a very similar story as the left side (see above)

    Overall, I was surprised with the U2 as from the published frequency response graph it seemed like it varied a bit more than the GS25, but in my car, it actually appears to vary less and offers a bit of a flatter response. It also seems to offer a top end that is less rolled off which might be possible due to it's smaller size.

    The GS25 may be capable of some "better" lower end output with a larger xmax, but honestly, the U2's lower end output is keeping up just fine with it's higher frequency output and from a quick listen today I didn't notice anything lacking.

    Here are some photographs for comparison:

    U2 (wideband) on the left, SB29RDNC (tweeter) on the right:
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    GS25 on the left, U2 on the right:
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    The U2 is VERY similar in size to the SB29RDNC so I was able to re-use the baffle I created for the SB29RDNC for the U2 where I only had to shave ~1mm from the mounting opening to make it fit (the U2 is on the right below, the GS25 is on the left). If anyone currently has the SB29RDNC, this is an EASY replacement if you ever want to try a wideband.
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    The U2 mounted in car below:
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    Long post, I know, but I thought it might be interesting / useful for anyone considering these two drivers.

    Overall, they both are great and are well suited for OEM locations on the dash pointed up at the windshield.

    Interested to hear people's thoughts on the above. I am sure I missed some things...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  2. Back To Top    #2

    Re: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    My apologies for the table with the speaker specs not displaying well. It lined up great on my computer but when viewing it on my phone I see it’s kind of mushed together... my bad!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    But which one do you think sounded better ?

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by preston View Post
    But which one do you think sounded better ?
    Good question. The GS25 sound great.

    I haven’t been able to do a full tune of the U2’s yet, but I can update the post once I do that. I’m guessing they both are going to sound great; it probably won’t be something where I can say one sounds better than the other.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    Nice comparison! I too would be interested in hearing your thoughts after you've spent some time and tuned the U2's.

    Was there some reason that you decided to switch things up? Was there something about the GS25's that you thought was lacking? Or just bored and decided to try something new? :-)

    I also recently installed the GS25's in my 2018 Challenger dash (stock speaker size is 3.5"). The difference with my setup is that I always had the vast majority of sound from from the dash. Before the GS25's, I always had 3.5" coaxials in the dash. The problem with 3.5" coaxials is that there are very few "higher end" 3.5" coaxial speakers on the market. Really, the only one I'm aware of is the Illusion Audio C3CX and they are a) hard to find, b) very expensive (~$700) and c) not very well "supported" by the company anymore. The "contact us" email address posted on the Illusion Audio website doesn't even work - and when I reached out to their "parent" company (ORCA), I never even got a response. I decided that I wanted to replace them after I had issues with one setting the high-pass filter on it to 275hz/24dB (even though Illusion Audio recommends 250hz/12dB).

    So I just eplaced the C3CX 3.5" coaxials with the GS25's and I'll tell you what - I don't miss the tweeter at ALL so far. If I didn't know better, I would think that there was still a tweeter in the speaker under the factory dash speaker grille. Have been really impressed with the GS25 so far - I'm really surprised how well they handle the highs. I did need to boost the higher end, but the results are fantastic so far - using them in the stock dash speaker locations, which fire up into the windshield.

    What is interesting is that I had originally bought some Hybrid Audio L3SE widebands to replace my C3CX speakers. However, due to the sellers situation, there was a delay before he could ship them - and in the meantime, I learned of the GS25's - so I decided to purchase a set of those to try while waiting for the L3SE's (I get next day delivery with Crutchfield, so I got them very quickly!). Now, I'm not so sure I've even going to try the L3SE's... I just hate tearing apart the interior more than I need to (in my experience it causes panels to "loosen" over time, which causes rattles, etc) - so I may just hang on to the L3SE's for a while until I get bored and want to try something new.... :-)


    EDIT: Oh - that 4mm Xmax spec for the GS25 is hard to believe. I just don't see how that speaker cone can move 4mm when the GS690 is only 5mm. :-) I know that's what the specs say, but it just doesn't make sense to me. I noticed that the GS25 manual still had "GS40" printed on top of the specs page - I wonder if that spec is actually for the GS40? That being said, I'm not a speaker designer, so maybe it really is 4mm - just seems awful high to me based on the rubber surround, etc (I'm assuming higher xmax usually is related to a "bigger" rubber surround - so the speaker has the ability to "move" more?).
    Last edited by jtrosky; 06-01-2020 at 07:04 AM.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    Honestly, I wanted to hear what HATs sound like and I wanted to conduct this little experiment/comparison. I knew I would always be bothered wondering if the U2’s would sound better or be easier to tune so I went for it.

    I’ve already learned a lot from the experiment; mainly that published specs and graphs can only tell you so much and that in car performance is another big factor. This is obvious to many of you, but to see it play out with measured data was interesting / objective.

    It made me think of a recent post by Andy from Audiofrog and how he designs subwoofers (see below):



    It’s neat that Andy has a model of a car and a target response inside of that car that forms the target he’s trying to hit with the speaker parameters / engineering.

    Obviously, the same thing is happening with these widebands by Audiofrog and HAT. They’ve engineered the parameters to work in a particular application (on the dash pointed at your windshield) so when measuring them outside of these locations (which I assume was done to get the published frequency response graphs) what you see is not what you get when in car.

    This is true all the time, but it was neat to see it play out for both drivers, and particularly the U2, whose frequency response seemed to be “worse” on paper but seems to be “better” when measured in car in its intended application.

    Neat engineering from both speakers.


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  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    In case anyone is interested, I’m going to stick with the Audiofrog GS25. Both sounded great, but the GS25 were easier to dial in a tune with. The U2’s ended up not blending as well as the GS25 did as I ended up having phase issues between my U2 and mid bass that I didn’t have with the GS25. Could be totally install specific or maybe even user error. Can’t go wrong though with either.


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  8. Back To Top    #8
    Noob bnae38's Avatar
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    Re: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    Great post, wish we saw more like this.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Noob JCsAudio's Avatar
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    Re: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    A agree with Bnae38, nice work comparing the two. I’m a little stumped though on how you had a phase issue with the U2 but not the GS25 when there were in the same location. Maybe the back wave from the speaker wasn’t sealed off?
    Mazda CX5 AF GB10, AF GB25, AF GB60, JL VX800/8i, AF GB12 sealed, Mmats M1400.1

    Ford F150
    AF GB10, AF GB25, JLC5, JL twk88/Pioneer D8604, Mosconi Pico, JBL Club 5501, Sundown SD3-10 ported @ 30 Hz

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    AF GB15, Audiofrog GS690, JL twk88/Pioneer D9500F, JBL GTX500, Alpine SWS10 ported @ 31 Hz

    https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa.../#post-5608901






  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Widebands: Audiofrog GS25 and Hybrid Audio Technology Unity U2 comparison

    I'm still running my GS25's as well, even though these beautiful Hybrid Audio Technologies L3SE speakers are sitting here looking at me every day. :-) I'm sure I'll eventually give in and try them - and when I do, I'll be sure to post a similar comparison between the GS25 and L3SE.

    I also ordered a new replacement C3CX coaxial for the one I damaged. Not sure if I'm going to keep them or sell them at this point (full working set now). May depend on how the GS25's work out (and/or the L3SE's). :-)

    I'll probably get my GS690's installed first though - hopefully today (although, I said that last weekend as well). :-)

    In the meantime, I do have un-EQ'd graphs of the G25's in my 2018 Challenger if anyone is interested. However, I don't normally test these small speakers without a high-pass filter applied, so my graphs are with a 400hz high-pass filter applied. I have similar un-EQ'd graphs for the Illusion Audio C3CX coaxials, Kenwood KFC-X3C 3.5" coaxials and maybe even the Infinity Reference 3.5" coaxials as well, if anyone is interested in seeing them. I also have graphs of the GS25's before and after I re-installed my dash panel (which has built in, somewhat restrictive speaker grilles).

    I have TONS of measurements (never delete any of them). Could also post comparisons of a few different 6x9 midbass speakers as well (CDT CL-69S, Kenwood Excelon, Infinity Reference and soon Audiofrog GS690), if anyone is interested (would post in a different thread if so).

    Let me know if anyone is interested - don't want to spend the time preparing all of this "stuff" if nobody is really interested. :-)

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