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Thread: Three years to get around to my own install.

  1. Back To Top    #121

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    Not for this.
    But I own two - one complete, one "for parts" as a wire lead into the stator broke in an unfortunately permanent way.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    I had the distinct pleasure of hearing one when I was about 16. I still romanticize about that low bass nearly 25 years later.
    2019 Micro Blue Pearl Kia Stinger GT1 AWD-OEM Harmon Kardon System
    www.markfenskephoto.com

  2. Back To Top    #122

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Quote Originally Posted by mfenske View Post
    I had the distinct pleasure of hearing one when I was about 16. I still romanticize about that low bass nearly 25 years later.
    It definitely plays low. You almost need one of those, then some tens as midbass to pick up from 50 or so hz

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

  3. Back To Top    #123

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    It definitely plays low. You almost need one of those, then some tens as midbass to pick up from 50 or so hz

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    That's how I remember it too. The one I heard the owner (installer) never got around to larger mids as I recall.
    2019 Micro Blue Pearl Kia Stinger GT1 AWD-OEM Harmon Kardon System
    www.markfenskephoto.com

  4. Back To Top    #124

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    So you might enjoy this -
    I'm not sure if you linked me to this thread or if I found it off something else - just saw I had this in an open tab on my browser today:
    https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...subdriver.html

    It was a fun thread to read, because Tom Danley (ServoDrive) explained his history with rotary servo drivers... the Cyclone was the only rotary driver actually commercially produced, although he obviously created some massive one-offs for industrial purposes.

    What's also funny is that the OP in that thread linked to my old project to build my own twin-motor rotary subwoofer based on the Cyclone design, back when I was doing engineering work with Better Audio. The goal of this project was 100% for fun, not to try to make any product. The whole Better Audio website is ancient history now, but you can see the original page from the wayback machine:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20060213.../servoproject/

    Of course Tom Danley had known of the project... I reached out to him because I had no idea where or what to buy for motors. Tom personally responded to me, pointed me in the right direction, and showed me how to buy servo motors that would be appropriate for what we were trying to do. What a great guy, right?

    After I got it this far, I shipped it to my old business partner who built a gigantic 4 chambered enclosure, with a dividing wall that terminated at a flexibile terminus like a windshield wiper blade or something... and had a little success but then burned out the motors while trying to tweak things. They weren't cheap.
    Tears.

    That was way back in 2003... back when I was a mod on so many car audio forums. Damn I'm feeling old.

  5. Back To Top    #125

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    I was surprised to see the ProTech subs as well! I had gone to competitions at PJs autosound as far back as ‘92. I had a system around 1999-2000 that had 12 ProTech ProCast 15” running off of Linear Power 5002IQ’s. I believe the subs I had were from the Stanford Acoustics build house. One of the best all ProTech SQ systems I ever heard was Greg Cassis Typhoon, it did take the world championship cup so a lot of judges also shared my sentiments. Your two subs are the first time I’ve ever seen some long throw style ProTech subs. What is the current status on ProTech? Feel free to DM me. I was so deeply involved back then, I have a personal interest in the company.

  6. Back To Top    #126

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Unfortunately, I would say it's currently in "permanent hiatus". I think I may actually have most of the remaining inventory in my storage unit, although I did give some/most of it back to him... what he wanted. Interested in some Time Lense tweeters?
    My buddy, the current owner, is now a nurse, has two kids, and so priorities have changed. He was really never able to follow up to be a proper distribution rep like the old days...
    And even the former owner - someone who I helped launch an SMT contract manufacturing business with (which was why HE got out of the business - onward to bigger and better) who was a great salesman, just didn't have the time to really act as a proper distribution rep.
    At this point, it's been so long since there were any real manufacturing contracts that I'm sure he'd be willing to sell to someone who wanted to re-birth the brand, but it would nearly be like starting from scratch.

    Then again - Adire was recently sold to an enthusiast, who was smart (in my opinion) about the relaunch - he started up simply by using Dan as a consultant, re-launching as simply as possible using all original parts and designs (with only a few Dan-suggested tweaks), to let the old engine warm up again into a nice idle, to give a good baseline, before evaluating and making decisions on changes. Pretty smart, I'm sure that could be done here. I'd even given that a thought myself - but I'm not in a position to really act as a proper distribution rep myself. I really think that's THE missing link for any company who has a product worth selling, which Pro Tech did.
    Last edited by geolemon; 01-28-2021 at 10:50 AM.

  7. Back To Top    #127

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Over the past few weeks I've finally gotten around to some listening, done some 3D printing... made some tweaks... and I have some first impressions, early leaders.

    I still need to:
    -- Do final listening with more acoustical treatments to better simulate a car.
    -- Take REW measurements to help normalize the responses to make better imaging decisions.

    It's been scattered as I've had a few minutes here, there...But I'll be putting up some pictures soon.

    Snow has mostly melted, it's going to be decent outside again soon to do work on cars again!

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

  8. Back To Top    #128

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    RESULTS START HERE

    Some disclaimer- This is my first time using this mic (Dayton UMM-6, with it's calibration file entered into REW), and I'm using a desktop PC in my basement that's never been used for this before. If any odd anomalies appear, I'm still going to try to stay consistent across my measurements, because ultimately it's just their performance relative to one another that I'm using for my install decision making.

    For all these, this rig has passive filters I bought for this-
    Midbass up to 500hz (12dB/octave)
    Wideband from 500hz (12dB/octave) up.

    I also have a pair of JL component set crossovers mounted up to let me run a tweeter. When I am not running the widebands all the way up, I am using this to cut them off at 5khz (12dB/octave) and then the Pro Tech Time Lense tweeters up from there.

    For measurements, I'm positioning the mic at head level at drivers seat position (offset) and I'll do my best to keep that consistent.
    Last edited by geolemon; 01-08-2022 at 12:52 PM.

  9. Back To Top    #129

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Tectonic TEBM35C10-4

    These are interesting tiny speaker. They advertise them as 2", but that's really the outer diameter of the whole thing. It's more like 1.25".

    They are BMR drivers - the 3" version of these are used in the Philharmonic BMR high-ish-end speakers ($1400), and some popular kits that try to clone it.
    The way they are supposed to operate is below a certain frequency, they operate as a piston driver. And above a certain frequency they operate similarly to a bending-wave driver (ie. panel and stimulator), offering "nearly 180 degree dispersion" to nearly 20Khz, they claim. The polar plots are impressive):


    I bought eight, and arranged them in a time (distance) aligned array in some 3/4" thick triangle shaped enclosures I knocked up from scrap wood. I set up a pencil on a string from my ear-height and distance back from the windshield, but dead center (aiming for a 2-seat install), and drew lines on each triangle panel, to determine where to mount the speakers. The reason I did that goes back 20 some years to that Pathfinder I shared pictures of previously, with the success I had really pushing out the stage width with a phase-aligned array - so I figured:
    a) stage width is important in my imaging pursuits
    b) loudness is important too - and these each only handle 10 watts and have small cones. If I want them to serve as widebands, I at least need more than one per side.
    (I have also ordered four of the larger versions, to try a two-per-side, also phase/distance aligned - should be here any day)

    Initially I had them also hooked up to my JL 2-way crossovers, with a Pro Tech time lense tweeter on each side, but for these measurements there's no tweeters, I bypassed them, to see how capable they are. In my listening (which I did prior to measurements), I estimated that they probably were good pretty damn close to 10Khz - I really only felt I was missing a little of that "sizzle" of the top octave and beyond. In listening, I was really impressed - but I'm going to post listening results separately below to make it more easy to digest (I have to paste them from my Note app anyway).
    I also aimed these "cabinets" in slightly, as I initially really heard some speaker separation materializing as a gap in the center, and thought aiming could help that but I'm not changing the enclosure for this type of brief demoing.

    For measurements, I will share that - note that I have two of my Anarchy midbass in sealed enclosures on the floor - I'll share the pics of the rig when I share the listening notes. I do have four channels on my receiver, so I can disable/enable the midbasses and top end speaker setup separately.

    The three lines are -
    • Brown: Midbass only
    • Blue: Techtonics BMRs only
    • Green: Both together

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It really serves impressively well as a wideband. I've listened to my other drivers very briefly, and so far these are my frontrunners - I started the critical evaluation on them in part because I had them set up and couldn't stop listening.
    I'll share my listening notes next...
    Last edited by geolemon; 03-29-2021 at 06:08 PM.

  10. Back To Top    #130

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Initially I had these set up flat against the sides with the tweeters as shown in the first pic with the red lines. Image height was great (horizontal line), but there was a gap between those two small lines, when I was sitting in the "driver's" position. I didn't think aiming would be too important, given their small diameter and the polar plot/BMR behavior.
    Also, stage width on the left was disappointing, although it did extend way out on the right, about 12".

    But it did improve when I angled them a bit...

    The second pic shows how I angled them (it's a wide angle lens, it exaggerates it now that I see the pic), and how it changed the image. It was mostly centered without a hole, although there were still a few things popping out where I added those green dots. The width now pushes satisfyingly significantly past the glass on both sides.

    Bear in mind, that's still good since I have zero DSP, processing, EQ - only the passive Xovers I bought to consistently separate the midbass/widebands/tweeters.

    Also - I eventually bypassed the tweeters so I was running the BMR drivers and midbass and that's it, and I could easily turn off the midbass at the push of a button to listen to only the BMRs.

    I'll post some specific listening notes next - but the gist is that I had great imaging and response right down to the low midrange, where a small separation starts to appear.

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by geolemon; 03-29-2021 at 05:45 PM.

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