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Thread: Three years to get around to my own install.

  1. Back To Top    #81
    Wave Shepherd - aka Jazzi Justin Zazzi's Avatar
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    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    What your B&O pics show me, I believe, are more traditional tweeters with more or less waveguides to direct the sound energy forward, is that correct?
    So what they are trying to achieve is avoiding windshield reflections - I think that's twofold in their case - they have that scoop around the tweeter diaphram to prevent sound from moving rearward, and then the UFO overhead is probably to block sound energy from traveling vertically at least to the angle where it clears the windshield overhead?
    That sounds about right. The tweeters are also motorized and recess down into the dash so the UFO shape overhead also acts as a smooth cap when the tweeters are in the recessed position.

    At least, I remember they were motorized. I'm pretty sure they are. Not 100%, but mostly sure.
    Measure with mics, mark with chalk, cut with torch, grind to fit, sand to finish, paint to match.
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  2. Back To Top    #82

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Zazzi View Post
    That sounds about right. The tweeters are also motorized and recess down into the dash so the UFO shape overhead also acts as a smooth cap when the tweeters are in the recessed position.

    At least, I remember they were motorized. I'm pretty sure they are. Not 100%, but mostly sure.
    That does sound pretty trick, but I don't think I have the vertical space inside - referencing ErinH pics again:

    I'm not one to shy away from gimmicks for a little show factor... Motorized some amp racks, reveal panels... I'm this case - 4 bearing drawer slides and a couple short linear actuators and... In this case, that part would be way easier than clearing and relocating to make room

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  3. Back To Top    #83

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Zazzi View Post
    That sounds about right. The tweeters are also motorized and recess down into the dash so the UFO shape overhead also acts as a smooth cap when the tweeters are in the recessed position.

    At least, I remember they were motorized. I'm pretty sure they are. Not 100%, but mostly sure.
    They went up and down when the car was switched on and off - very cool and sure it made the car sound better


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  4. Back To Top    #84
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    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    @geolemon

    On DIYMA, there are a couple threads that discussed the Bang and Olufsen tweeter lens, started by Patrick Bateman.

    https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa...s-idea.113901/

    https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa...c-lens.193753/

    Not sure if you ever saw these, but if not, there may be some info that may be of interest to you.

    HTH

  5. Back To Top    #85

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Thanks and I'll definitely be reading those because if nothing else, it's another interesting article on a different approach to imaging.

    BUT...
    ...just to be clear, their approach is all about making a tweeter directional, I believe (I haven't read those yet) - to make it avoid reflecting off the windshield [or other boundaries] entirely, essentially, and direct all the sound energy to the listener.
    That is analogous to having the traditional directional loudspeaker with a tweeter and midrange pointed straight at you, to get all the on-axis energy directed at you.

    Omnidirectional loudspeakers are different, in the way they send sound intentionally in a 360 degree circle on the horizontal plane - sort of the opposite of a directional loudspeaker.

    And interestingly, counter-intuitively, it seems to make them function better, closer to walls. Directional loudspeakers often have issues when you get them near boundaries.
    ...or in the case of the Mirages, 70% omni / 30% direct, which I believe actually helps them create that illusion despite proximity to walls.

    But they will still probably need to avoid the windshield in the vertical plane, so this will be interesting to incorporate that - I'm guessing the real modification to the stock Mirage design will be a tweeter reflector that has a larger diameter.

    I'm also thinking I may need to make one with a deeper dish to it, since I'm planning at this point to use my Focal Aramid inverted domes (from a K2 Power set).

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  6. Back To Top    #86

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Did the Focal tweeter have a very tiny dome under the grille?

    Memory might be failing me though!


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  7. Back To Top    #87

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    They've evolved them over the years - mine are mid-00's.
    There was a version that had a claimed waveguide - I don't believe mine have them. One of these days soon I'm getting over to my storage unit to get an inventory of my audio stash, but I am 90% sure that mine just had regular grilles.
    The ones currently are also "M-shaped", but mine are more inverted domes.
    I'll have to grab some pics when I get over there again. Working from the house I just am not getting out and about as much.

    EDIT: I added some pics here of some of the Power tweeters over the years...
    The first are the ones I think you are talking about, the last are the current "M" shaped ones:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    ...and now that you mention it, I would swear mine are these, with the graphite housings... so maybe they DO have the small deflector:
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    Hopefully that doesn't complicate use with a deflector like I'd like. Or maybe I'll have to be brave and take that sucker right off.
    Last edited by geolemon; 05-30-2020 at 06:46 PM. Reason: added some pics

  8. Back To Top    #88

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    They are the ones I was thinking of

    Glad I’m not going mad!

    Guess the original Focal TLR tweeter ‘bumps’ on each side of the cone were deflectors as well.


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  9. Back To Top    #89

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    So - back on the Omnidirectional bandwagon for a minute...

    Ohm audio has been around since the 70's, using a simple thing called a Walsh driver.
    There's a pic below.
    As John Strohbeen from Ohm describes here their first version, albeit fragile and inefficient, COULD function as a single speaker that played all the way from 20hz to 20khz, and imaged better than anything while doing it - and that ain't nothing.

    They added powerhandling, a separate tweeter with some trick aiming, and a couple secrets I'll uncover in my next post - and it transformed from a speaker that they recommended to keep 7 feet away from walls...
    ...to ones that work RIGHT against walls.

    And again my obsession with speakers that work close-coupled to walls is because in a car, we're surrounded by not only walls, but glass.

    In this review:
    Z Review - Ohm Walsh [BEST SPEAKERS EVER!!] Jesus... that's quite the title. Actually he explains in there he actually removed that from his prior favorite speakers, to apply to this video. But anyway...
    ...this famous high-end audio reviewer has almost the same story and same reaction as mine (Like I described earlier in this thread, in 2005 or 2006 I walked into the Bolzano Villetri room at the CES high-end audio section that year, and was blown away by the imaging, of one of the LESS expensive speakers of all the high-end section)...

    I think if you watch even 5 minutes of this video, you'll see why I'm encouraged to try this omni stuff in a car space... The best quote in the review happens at 22:57:
    "The imaging? You can't escape it. It's an inescapable imaging machine."
    That's exactly what I want in my car.

    Now going back to that interview at the top with John, he admitted Lincoln Walsh originally proposed that you could simply take a standard midrange and invert it, firing down, so you are listening to the back of the cone, radiating in 360 degrees.

    Think about that...

    ...now look at what a real Walsh driver is.
    See a cone, firing down? See a voice coil above it,attached just like any other speaker? See a magnet around it, just like any other speaker? See a basket? etc, etc:
    (that's a super-tweeter on top, that's not past of the Walsh. Also the can around it is just a grille, and hides everything inside)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The goal of this post isn't to change my plan, though.

    Plan A is still to steal the Mirage alignment and maybe even use the whole reflector pod as-is.

    But plan B will also be to give some inverted 3" midranges a listen... Maybe angle them slightly like Mirages... Let the ghost of Walsh guide me.

    If nothing else, I might have just found a fun budget project for someone who has dash speakers already.
    Last edited by geolemon; 06-03-2020 at 01:22 PM. Reason: To simplify a long boring post

  10. Back To Top    #90

    Re: Three years to get around to my own install.

    Also - just to show "plan B" might also have merit...
    Call this "Walsh secrets revealed"!

    Here's a video, I have the start time set to exactly 31:15 (if it doesn't start there - just jump to there):
    https://youtu.be/n2SgdR92BlQ?t=1875

    At that point, he pops the protective covers off the original driver module and...
    Two things are pretty interesting in that few minutes, where you can see the guts:

    • That Walsh driver? It sure looks like a regular speaker to me! Just downfiring. And I'm not discounting that "lid" of sound absorbing material above them... but that's not something you couldn't DIY on top of any other speaker.
    • That sound absorbing barrier... or I should say BOTH sound absorbing barriers:
      • The one that serves as a "lid" above the midrange, I expect that functions like the Mirage reflector.
      • The barrier behind the speaker (one reason these work well against walls) - I think the Mirage 15 degree angle and the reflector above may combine so I won't need one, but if I do, it's definitely not rocket science to DIY one of those either.


    ...not that I've been researching these or anything.
    Last edited by geolemon; 06-02-2020 at 09:05 PM.

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