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Thread: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

  1. Back To Top    #31
    Noob NoDestiny's Avatar
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    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    Question: has anybody tried using a different crossover point for the left and right midbass to subwoofer output? My DSP allows me to select different xover points for the left and right of my subwoofer... hence why I ask. Is this begging for some weird phase issues with the sub? lol
    Last edited by NoDestiny; 05-29-2020 at 12:38 PM.

  2. Back To Top    #32

    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    I think you'd just have less power between those two crossover points...
    Assuming you mean, like, a DVC sub where you are feeding it power from 75hz and down on one VC and 90hz and down on the other VC.

    Technically the sub would have slightly different T/S behavior between those points also, since you are only energizing half the windings... so Qes would go up, Qts would go up... those spec shifts might make it "less than ideal" in a vented box between 75hz and 90hz, but I'm not sure you'd really even notice. Maybe if you fed it test tones and impulse bursts you could tell... Give it a try! Why not?

  3. Back To Top    #33

    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    DUDES - I have been having this EXACT issue in my 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4!!!!!! I have Alpine 6x9's in the doors bandpassed anywhere from 65-1200 up to 85-1200, and I was ALWAYS fighting having certain songs/bass land in my lap. For the life of me I was always trying tones/noise and trying to balance the left/right under 80hz. The sub was crossed at 67hz in general. I would find that level matching those lower ranges by RTA just didn't work, I would ALWAYS have certain notes in my lap, and to combat the issue I was having to cut that range on the left by 2-4 decibels to get any kind of center there. The truck has a full console and apparently it makes this issue worse.

    Well, I changed the sub to 75hz, and moved the 6x9's to 100hz. Everything on a 24db slope. Well, holy shit, it cured almost of the problem. Totally not intuitive IMO, but it certainly made an instant difference. All of the bass is still upfront and even tighter than before. Impact is there, and midbass heavy tracks just dead on punch in the middle. Michael Jackson is one of my go to midbass tuning artists, and man, it is impressive. A little eq work may be in order to clean it up, but wow.

    I love this place, I am a DIYAudio changeover, that forum went to shit.

  4. Back To Top    #34

    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    After some more testing, I have come to two conclusions, I really had two things going on. First, changing the crossover point definitely helped the situation, although it wasn't ALL of it. The midbasses are bandpassed @100hz-1000hz/24 db. Sub picks up from 75hz down/24 db. On some music I still noticed a pull to the left, so I broke out the test tones and overlapped the midbass and sub. From 60hz-120hz I could play just the midbass with dead center imaging, no sub on. Then I would feed in the sub using my remote, as the sub came in, the image would move left, and reach peak loudness between 80-100hz with the image sitting on my right knee. Bingo. So, I moved my sub. It was behind my rear seat as the pic shows. I moved it and placed it under the seat on left, then center, then far right.

    Far right is the best! I have not tested down firing yet. But with sub firing up, bass is dead center and clean and no image wandering. Now that brings the dilemma what to do. I like having my floor space in my super crew, but in actuality I rarely use it with seat folded up. I can probably get by with a single enclosure under the right side that is removable for those special cases when going camping or what not. I will probably just make a new down firing enclosure for my baby Dayton 6.5" subs that fits nicely there and go with it. The current enclosure is a bit small on port volume anyways and I can hear a little chuffing at low and loud levels. Downfiring and a larger port will most likely increase output as well. Then I will have to fill in the carpet I removed behind the rear seat LOL.

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  5. Back To Top    #35
    Senior Member chithead's Avatar
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    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    That is awesome! I found the same to be true in my regular cab installs. Although one truck had a center console with mucho space behind it between the seats, moving the sub all the way to the corner behind the passenger seat provided the most enjoyable listening. Turning the sub to fire into the corner provided the most output. Thought about experimenting with a pair of subs like that, left and right firing into each corner, but never had the chance to try it.
    Are you not entertained?!?!


  6. Back To Top    #36

    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    Would mids under the front seats make any difference vs. in the doors or kicks?

  7. Back To Top    #37

    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    It'll just shift the frequencies where the peaks/dips occur. They're still going to be there.
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  8. Back To Top    #38

    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    Quote Originally Posted by therapture View Post
    After some more testing, I have come to two conclusions, I really had two things going on. First, changing the crossover point definitely helped the situation, although it wasn't ALL of it. The midbasses are bandpassed @100hz-1000hz/24 db. Sub picks up from 75hz down/24 db. On some music I still noticed a pull to the left, so I broke out the test tones and overlapped the midbass and sub. From 60hz-120hz I could play just the midbass with dead center imaging, no sub on. Then I would feed in the sub using my remote, as the sub came in, the image would move left, and reach peak loudness between 80-100hz with the image sitting on my right knee. Bingo. So, I moved my sub. It was behind my rear seat as the pic shows. I moved it and placed it under the seat on left, then center, then far right.

    Far right is the best! I have not tested down firing yet. But with sub firing up, bass is dead center and clean and no image wandering. Now that brings the dilemma what to do. I like having my floor space in my super crew, but in actuality I rarely use it with seat folded up. I can probably get by with a single enclosure under the right side that is removable for those special cases when going camping or what not. I will probably just make a new down firing enclosure for my baby Dayton 6.5" subs that fits nicely there and go with it. The current enclosure is a bit small on port volume anyways and I can hear a little chuffing at low and loud levels. Downfiring and a larger port will most likely increase output as well. Then I will have to fill in the carpet I removed behind the rear seat LOL.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	12906 Click image for larger version. 

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    It would seem like you could have done the same thing by virtually moving the sub by changing its delay (time alignment). I had a similar sub alignment problem with all pass filters causing some imaging weirdness when I really just needed a delay change.

    Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk

  9. Back To Top    #39

    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    Quote Originally Posted by ckirocz28 View Post
    It would seem like you could have done the same thing by virtually moving the sub by changing its delay (time alignment). I had a similar sub alignment problem with all pass filters causing some imaging weirdness when I really just needed a delay change.

    I tried delaying the sub all over the map. Never really cured the issue. Going too far outside the sweet spot just lost coherence with the midbass.

    I even tried setting sub to one midbass or the other for best bass and then bringing the other mid ass back online.

    I can distinctly move the center image between 60 and 100 hertz just by moving the sub left and right under the seat.

    It is a very strange phenomenon, Never had this happen in my car builds.

  10. Back To Top    #40

    Re: Use your subwoofer to get better midbass

    Quote Originally Posted by therapture View Post
    I tried delaying the sub all over the map. Never really cured the issue. Going too far outside the sweet spot just lost coherence with the midbass.

    I even tried setting sub to one midbass or the other for best bass and then bringing the other mid ass back online.

    I can distinctly move the center image between 60 and 100 hertz just by moving the sub left and right under the seat.

    It is a very strange phenomenon, Never had this happen in my car builds.
    When I say change the delay, I mean by a lot, like 20 ms, I had to add just over 20 ms to my front stage speakers to get things right. But if you've found a solution you can live with, just keep doing that.
    We definitely run across some weird issues in car audio.

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