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Thread: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

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    Wave Shepherd - aka Jazzi Justin Zazzi's Avatar
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    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    Quote Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
    Ok, I have an easy one for you (I think?). A lot of people seem to look "down" on 6x9 speakers. Personally, I've found that they make fantastic midbass speakers. What are you thoughts on "non-round" speakers? To me, for something like midbass, a 6x9 seems perfectly fine and has the advantage of more cone area so it can provide deeper bass than 6.5" midbass speakers.

    Just curious what an engineer things about 6x9s. :-)

    Thank you!
    I'm not sure where non-round speakers first got a bad name. I'm guessing the first non-round speakers were relatively immature models that didn't perform well, or maybe oval speakers have a stigma of being "oem" so therefore they must be junk.

    I think oval speakers are mature enough now that they perform well and they can get you more cone area in a space that wouldn't otherwise be practical. For example we make a 6x9" woofer that fits in the top of the saddlebags on motorcycles.

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    These speakers make excellent use of the available space and I've been tuning something similar with stellar results.

    I like them for the most part since you can get more sound out of a similar size hole. They can be tricky to simulate in terms of off-axis response for all of the discussion you're having above though. Also, oval speakers require more sophisticated tools to model the off-axis frequency response and by more sophisticated I mean more expensive and sometimes time consuming. I think non-round speakers are mature enough at this point that they offer a solid deal and they are starting to catch on as a way to get a "bigger" speaker in a similar space.

    I also get tripped up on the 5x7" ovals because that's a common size to print photographs which is another hobby of mine!
    Measure with mics, mark with chalk, cut with torch, grind to fit, sand to finish, paint to match.
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    Noob mikeyt's Avatar
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    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    Maybe you can dispel a myth for me. I would like to use a sub that's rated 1000 watts rms, however the 5 channel amp that I will use will only put out 660 rms out of the sub channel at 2ohms stable.

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    Noob Jdunk54nl's Avatar
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    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyt View Post
    Maybe you can dispel a myth for me. I would like to use a sub that's rated 1000 watts rms, however the 5 channel amp that I will use will only put out 660 rms out of the sub channel at 2ohms stable.
    Whats the myth? That you have to use 1000 watts or you are going to hurt it? If so that is definitely a myth. There is no such thing as under powering speakers.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

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    Noob mikeyt's Avatar
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    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    Sorry I didn't finish my post before hitting enter...lol Yes I was wondering if under powering the speaker would affect the performance of it.

  5. Back To Top    #45
    Wave Shepherd - aka Jazzi Justin Zazzi's Avatar
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    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyt View Post
    Sorry I didn't finish my post before hitting enter...lol Yes I was wondering if under powering the speaker would affect the performance of it.
    If you give it a little less power, it will be a little less loud! Honestly, that's what happens when you're listening to music at a reasonable volume ... you're sending maybe 10-50w of power to your subwoofer instead of 1000w. Does your subwoofer explode? No. Actually it does the opposite by staying cool and not being stressed mechanically. If you give you subwoofer a little less power then it'll be a little less loud.

    I think the myth goes like this: if you under-power your speaker then you'll want to turn up your amplifier a lot and over-drive it into clipping. Then, clipping is like momentary DC voltage which is more power than you expect so you speaker will melt. Or clipping has tremendous amounts of high-frequency energy and it will melt your tweeter.

    The myth relies on you over-driving your amplifier far into clipping. If you are pushing your "small" amplifier so hard that this could actually melt your speakers, then I imagine you would also overdrive a "larger" amplifier and just melt your speakers faster. I think this myth/problem exists between radio and chair.

    ---

    I do not believe the extra power delivered to a subwoofer would be a serious problem but I'm curious how sensitive a tweeter might be to excess power in the higher frequencies. By happy accident, I am running a few power tests at the office right now as a practical test for this *exact* question. I am tuning a system louder than before and we are making sure that running it hotter, well into clipping, will not present any reliability issues. If I learn something cool I'll share what I can!
    Measure with mics, mark with chalk, cut with torch, grind to fit, sand to finish, paint to match.
    Updated Justin tuning sheet (Justin and Erica tuning companion for SMAART and REW)
    Do it for them.

  6. Back To Top    #46
    That Guy Pb82 Ronin's Avatar
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    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    Justin, great thread so far! Definitely been chasing my tail with trying to deal with what I feel is wave cancellation in the low frequencies (> 100Hz) in my Vette. My sub is a JL 10W7 in a sealed box fired upwards into curved glass. My assumption is the sound wave is colliding with itself and cancelling. Of course I could be way off too...that's why I'm asking. When we tune in the garage, everything goes well and bass response is decent. But, when i take the car to the highway, all bass just vanishes (mid-bass suffers the most). All i can hear is from about 500 Hz and up, and 60 hz and lower. It's the strangest and most frustrating phenomenon ever.
    Last edited by Pb82 Ronin; 04-09-2020 at 02:20 PM.

  7. Back To Top    #47
    Noob TheTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pb82 Ronin View Post
    Justin, great thread so far! Definitely been chasing my tail with trying to deal with what I feel is wave cancellation in the low frequencies (> 100Hz) in my Vette. My sub is a JL 10W7 in a sealed box fired upwards into curved glass. My assumption is the sound wave is colliding with itself and cancelling. Of course I could be way of too...that's why I'm asking. When we tune in the garage, everything goes well and bass response is decent. But, when i take the car to the highway, all bass just vanishes (mid-bass suffers the most). All i can hear is from about 500 Hz and up, and 60 hz and lower. It's the strangest and most frustrating phenomenon ever.
    I’m dealing with a similar issue in my Vette (1996) but it’s only really the sub bass that drops out but I’m attributing it to the muffler deleted exhaust & the general lack of sound deadening throughout the car. So I’m figuring more of a drowning out vs cancellation but I could be wrong. My subs are also firing straight up into the curved glass so I’m curious to hear any thoughts. It very well just could be the fact that our cars (Vettes in general) didn’t really have faithful music reproduction in mind when designed. It’s more about the power & driving experience plus being lightweight, so my non-engineer S.W.A.G. (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) is that certain frequencies are just getting drowned out. The difference in frequencies between your Corvette & mine may be due to the year difference.

  8. Back To Top    #48
    That Guy Pb82 Ronin's Avatar
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    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    It's not the deadening bro...I have a C6Z with CLD, MLV, and VB2, 4, etc all through it...she's SUPER quiet. This phenomenon STILL happens. I also have the M2W so I can kill my exhaust output as to not interfere. Trust me when i say my vette is very quiet. I really think the speaker orientation is killing it.

  9. Back To Top    #49
    Noob TheTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    Yeah... you probably have a point there. Mine has just about none. I have it more for the sensory experience than the music. For mine, the music is something to occupy me on longer trips. There’s a lot of times the radio doesn’t even get turned on.

  10. Back To Top    #50

    Re: Ask an Acoustic Engineer (me)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pb82 Ronin View Post
    It's not the deadening bro...I have a C6Z with CLD, MLV, and VB2, 4, etc all through it...she's SUPER quiet. This phenomenon STILL happens. I also have the M2W so I can kill my exhaust output as to not interfere. Trust me when i say my vette is very quiet. I really think the speaker orientation is killing it.
    If speaker orientation remains the same when on the highway as when tuning in the garage, wouldn't something other than orientation account for the difference?

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