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Thread: Tonality vs RTA

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    A Refined Basshead blockrocker's Avatar
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    Tonality vs RTA

    Hello.
    I have been learning how to tune my stereo over the last few months. A 3-way active front, 1 sub and a dsp.3. Each time I tune, the system sounds better and better, however, there is one issue I cannot seem to figure out. My overall tone of the system seems too high pitched. I have successfully tuned to a 3dB tolerance of my house curve (basically a bassed up audiofrog) and yet my tone still seems off. At moderate levels you may not notice it too much, but at "showoff" levels, it is noticeably high pitched.

    Why would this be? Is there a give away in my RTA measurements that would let me know? Is it a speaker placement/install thing? Or do I just need to do a better job on tuning?

    My mids and tweets are in 3d printed pods on the dash and the 6.5 inch woofs are in the doors. I'm not sure how to approach a solution since I can't seem to find whats causing the problem.

    Any tips would be appreciated. Don't worry about insulting me, I know I'm green and I have thick skin. Let me have it!
    Cheers!

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    BURNED OUT Hillbilly SQ's Avatar
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    Re: Tonality vs RTA

    Can you post a screenshot of your curve? Also, are these 3d printed pods sealed? If so, how big are they and what mids are you running? Reason I ask is because I've heard midranges get really harsh in sealed pods that were too small. The lower you try to play them the more the cone rings and just screws up the whole bandwidth being played by them. I had to open up my pvc endcaps with a 1/4" hole in the bottom (not enough to cause back wave cancellation because of how the pods are mounted) and of course they have pieces of open celled foam in them to help keep the rear wave from splattering.

    EDIT: but I've found to keep from sounding harsh I tend to like the top end to roll off gradually starting at about 5k or so. It's a delicate balance.
    They might say "don't try this at home" but nothing about not trying it at your friend's house.

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    DIYMA Janitor SkizeR's Avatar
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    Re: Tonality vs RTA

    could be too much top end after the crossover in your midrange that you arent seeing/fixing, could be that your ears just dont prefer it, could be off axis response up top isnt adding anything to the measurement and is causing a top heavy shift on the rta but your ears are hearing it differently, etc etc..

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    A Refined Basshead blockrocker's Avatar
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    Re: Tonality vs RTA

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
    Can you post a screenshot of your curve? Also, are these 3d printed pods sealed? If so, how big are they and what mids are you running? Reason I ask is because I've heard midranges get really harsh in sealed pods that were too small. The lower you try to play them the more the cone rings and just screws up the whole bandwidth being played by them. I had to open up my pvc endcaps with a 1/4" hole in the bottom (not enough to cause back wave cancellation because of how the pods are mounted) and of course they have pieces of open celled foam in them to help keep the rear wave from splattering.

    EDIT: but I've found to keep from sounding harsh I tend to like the top end to roll off gradually starting at about 5k or so. It's a delicate balance.
    Thanks for the response. Yes they are sealed pods stuffed with polyfil. I have been told the mids would prefer an ib or open air setup, but I am leery to do a "permanent" install until I am certain I know what I'm doing and that these are the speakers I want to keep. I have attached a pic of my house curve.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Edit: My mids: https://adcaraudio.com/store/product/admc334/

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    A Refined Basshead blockrocker's Avatar
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    Re: Tonality vs RTA

    Thanks Skiz. I think its between a speaker not loving my pods and the after crossover range you mentioned. I'm not really sure how to approach it because the rta looks good, with a nice clean roll off, plus I'm not sure if I should trust my ears since I haven't heard many top end systems in soooo long. I've gotten used to crappy sound and now my ears only notice whats wrong and not whats right. Lol.

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    A Refined Basshead blockrocker's Avatar
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    Re: Tonality vs RTA

    Quote Originally Posted by SkizeR View Post
    could be off axis response up top isnt adding anything to the measurement and is causing a top heavy shift on the rta but your ears are hearing it differently, etc etc..
    Would you mind explaining this to me a little more?

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    BURNED OUT Hillbilly SQ's Avatar
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    Re: Tonality vs RTA

    Have you tried listening to each speaker pair by themselves to see where the problem is truly coming from? And as much as you say you don't want to it might be time to put your ears into use for some tonality work. After all as long as you're happy with the end result it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks unless you're shooting for a tune what will hold its own in competition. It should be fairly tight where instruments are placed where they need to be and everything up on or slightly above the dash.
    They might say "don't try this at home" but nothing about not trying it at your friend's house.

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    Owner BigAl205's Avatar
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    Re: Tonality vs RTA

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ View Post
    Have you tried listening to each speaker pair by themselves to see where the problem is truly coming from? And as much as you say you don't want to it might be time to put your ears into use for some tonality work. After all as long as you're happy with the end result it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks unless you're shooting for a tune what will hold its own in competition. It should be fairly tight where instruments are placed where they need to be and everything up on or slightly above the dash.
    I was going to suggest muting one side and turning it up to see if it still sounds bad, then do the same for the other side. It's possible left and right are summing and may require crossover adjustment.

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    A Refined Basshead blockrocker's Avatar
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    Re: Tonality vs RTA

    Thanks Al and Hillbilly, I have not spent much time doing that, but I certainly will this weekend. As for what I am trying to accomplish, I would love my tune to hold its own in competition.....one day. Unfortunately, the scene in the city is non existent, so for now, I tune for enjoy-ability. But I really want to see how I stack up against the big boys too.
    Some time this year I am going to fly to a competition in the states and spend an entire weekend learning and drooling and making some new friends.

    I have played and continue to play with my crossovers, and there are tunes where my imaging is solid but something else lacks, than I fix whats lacking, but seem to cost me my imaging. Lots to learn I guess.

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    Re: Tonality vs RTA

    Tuning section , order of doing things or sequence . Whatever you do . . . Don't write it down as you go , and remember never adjust things without adjusting many other things at same time or it will get less confusing.
    I got a favorite song , you ? I have been listening to it forever , I know it very very well.

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