Sexual intercorsa...

[dumdum]

Holy shit. Either you are nucking Futs or really dedicated to your car audio. Or both . It's hard to believe you were having issues with midbass given what is mounted on your dash...

Ge0

the issue with what’s mounted on my dash is that they were all the exact same distance from the rear of the car and were adjustable by roughly +/- 6”, and due to the length of the car I got a dip on both satoris and sub at approx 90-100hz... the freq response is shown in the additional pic... I have also fixed the dip at the crossover region show in that picture

so you see you can’t fix phase issues with eq, and I tested the location for the floor mounted midbass with a test enclosure and had good bandwidth so then I implemented a decent standard of test enclosure... The dash sub is now going for the floor midbass and boot sub

the phase traces show minimal phase issues throughout now I’ve modded the midbass region and gone to the boot mounted sub... if you look very carefully the picture actually shows both left and right and you can see a little phase blip at 350ish from memory on one side, but it’s not really a massive issue... more a bobble... unlike the full on 360 phase spin on the left side at 90-100hz previously

[Ge0]

the issue with what’s mounted on my dash is that they were all the exact same distance from the rear of the car and were adjustable by roughly +/- 6”, and due to the length of the car I got a dip on both satoris and sub at approx 90-100hz... the freq response is shown in the additional pic... I have also fixed the dip at the crossover region show in that picture

so you see you can’t fix phase issues with eq, and I tested the location for the floor mounted midbass with a test enclosure and had good bandwidth so then I implemented a decent standard of test enclosure... The dash sub is now going for the floor midbass and boot sub

the phase traces show minimal phase issues throughout now I’ve modded the midbass region and gone to the boot mounted sub... if you look very carefully the picture actually shows both left and right and you can see a little phase blip at 350ish from memory on one side, but it’s not really a massive issue... more a bobble... unlike the full on 360 phase spin on the left side at 90-100hz previously

OK. This conversation fascinates me but I am confused. Please bear with me because I forgot a lot of this.

I see the freq response plot with the 8dB 100Hz suck out. That is what you had with the dash only system (without under seat midbass) right?

Now is the phase plot with under seat midbass? I don't know what I see at 28Hz. That's a complete mess. But, I see slight phase aberrations at 160Hz, 380Hz, and maybe 2.4KHz.

Are you seriously going to eliminate your dash mounted sub after placing midbasss in your floor? It may be the right thing to do but a huge loss in effort putting the front sub in.

Ge0

[dumdum]

OK. This conversation fascinates me but I am confused. Please bear with me because I forgot a lot of this.

I see the freq response plot with the 8dB 100Hz suck out. That is what you had with the dash only system (without under seat midbass) right?

Now is the phase plot with under seat midbass? I don't know what I see at 28Hz. That's a complete mess. But, I see slight phase aberrations at 160Hz, 380Hz, and maybe 2.4KHz.

Are you seriously going to eliminate your dash mounted sub after placing midbasss in your floor? It may be the right thing to do but a huge loss in effort putting the front sub in.

Ge0

Yes the response plot with suckout is the front sub with dash mids and tweeters...

the phase plot does indeed have little issues, but try and keep phase issues away in a car completely, the phase plot is purely the front end only, no sub... I’d not put the zapco in at that point, the midbass will get cut off somewhere between 40-50 for Emma level listening I’d think, and above 70 for daily to prevent excursion induced distortion

as for the dash sub, yes it’s going, I compete in a budget limited category so something has to give, my spare full dash will be damped and once I’m happy with it, will be put back in the car, the dash sub was going to need iteration two of its enclosure, but this way works out far nicer tonality wise and a 10” on the dash didn’t quite have the authority it needed in the lower regions, it’s all a balancing act for Emma 4000 euro category ����

[dumdum]

This was the left and right midbass phase traces in a slightly different position

note the left one that takes a complete 360 at 100hz, and how big the 300ish hz phase issue was until I tweaked the drivers location by just aiming it further into the cabin by 10 degrees or so, but it adjusted the reflection by a tiny amount and it definitely got better in the later plot three or four posts ago)

[dumdum]

Just incase anyone’s curious this is what my budget looks like, there is some dubious pricing on the Emma price list where prices have been added when products were maybe sold cheaper to get them out to market, or someone has sold something and provided proof of price from a receipt...

for example my z150.6ap retails at 1700-1800 euro... but hey who am I to argue with a price list

this includes a possible for my sub stage, and also an older iPad mini as my iPhone is €1100 euros which again is a bit off as I paid the equivalent of €800 euros from an Apple shop

[Haakono]

You could possibly free up about €200 from the budget by switching the Director for a URC.3.

It's prettier to look at the Director, but for EMMA purposes they both do exactly the same job.

[Ge0]

Just incase anyone’s curious this is what my budget looks like, there is some dubious pricing on the Emma price list where prices have been added when products were maybe sold cheaper to get them out to market, or someone has sold something and provided proof of price from a receipt...

for example my z150.6ap retails at 1700-1800 euro... but hey who am I to argue with a price list

this includes a possible for my sub stage, and also an older iPad mini as my iPhone is €1100 euros which again is a bit off as I paid the equivalent of €800 euros from an Apple shop

So you need to work off a retail price list regardless if you bought equipment on sale, closeout, or used? Ouch. Seems pretty limiting. But at least you, and you competitors, have clear boundaries.

A long time ago I worked for a NASCAR racing company. NASCAR requires everyone use the same equipment to level the playing field and make the race just about the driver. You wouldn't believe the cheating that went on there. We would literally gut the interior of a NASCAR standard ignition module and place our own electronics inside. Not saying anyone in your class would do that. But, you could free up some budget if you were running ROCKWOOD amps

Ge0

[Haakono]

So you need to work off a retail price list regardless if you bought equipment on sale, closeout, or used? Ouch. Seems pretty limiting. But at least you, and you competitors, have clear boundaries.

That it the whole point of the class though. Price limited. The class would be pointless if competitor A had a $4,000 setup paid at retail, and competitor B had a $12,000 setup that he managed to get secondhand for $4,000, in a $4,000 limit class.

But yeah, if you can't cheat on price (for equipment), you certainly can on install and tuning etc.. Meaning that you can spend whatever you choose to have everything professionally installed and tuned, instead of doing it yourself.

Also, the price list kind of flawed in regards to that it's (most likely) based on German suggested retail prices, but they do vary greatly across Europe. So the UK retail price for a Zapco amp might be 50% higher than the German one, while a Helix amp here in Norway might be 25% less than in Germany.. or the UK

[nadams5755]

try bass traps in the back for the 90-100hz null?

[Ge0]

That it the whole point of the class though. Price limited. The class would be pointless if competitor A had a $4,000 setup paid at retail, and competitor B had a $12,000 setup that he managed to get secondhand for $4,000, in a $4,000 limit class.

But yeah, if you can't cheat on price (for equipment), you certainly can on install and tuning etc.. Meaning that you can spend whatever you choose to have everything professionally installed and tuned, instead of doing it yourself.

Also, the price list kind of flawed in regards to that it's (most likely) based on German suggested retail prices, but they do vary greatly across Europe. So the UK retail price for a Zapco amp might be 50% higher than the German one, while a Helix amp here in Norway might be 25% less than in Germany.. or the UK

I should have ylou check prices for Helix amps for me then. They are a little pricey in the USA with import taxes and all... A V Twelve goes for between $1700 and $1850 USD.

Ge0