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Thread: Under appreciated Subwoofers

  1. Back To Top    #61
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    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    Quote Originally Posted by JCsAudio View Post
    I modelled them both in 1.0 cu ft sealed. The ICON can take more power than the Brahma but the Brahma has less inductance and needs slightly less power to get loud.

    Brahma is red, SSA is orange.

    Attachment 14397

    Attachment 14398
    Attachment 14399
    Wow....they modelled basically identical. That is good info, thanks.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

  2. Back To Top    #62
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    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    Quote Originally Posted by SQFord View Post
    I got one for you. Dayton Audio RSS315 HF-4 12Ē sub. They say a .7 sealed box, but seems like people like to put the, 8n bigger sealed boxís. Even as big a 4 cu ft. 400 watts RMS. I have read good things...... but I am new to this.

    I have a 2020 Ford Connect Transit Van and I am thinking of putting one in... I am looking for a very musical sub that will blend with the active front end....... is a smaller box better? Or bigger sealed box better? I have lots and lots of room.
    I will look into it and get back.
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  3. Back To Top    #63

    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    #3 - the CSS SDX12 (specifically the 12 - you'll see the displacement capability on the 10 is significantly less noteworthy).
    EDIT: If the OP is modeling, it might even be interesting to model the SDX10 vs the SDX12 simultaneously just to illustrate why I say that.

    I personally want this SDX12 bad. I'm an old-school XBL^2 fan, and I have a feeling this is the best one yet.
    Plus I love how it looks like NOTHING, mounted. I used to assemble my prototype subs with the plainest dome dustcaps just like this, so it looked cheap and then I could surprise people.

    Unfortunately I have a bit of a sub hoarding problem, and when I moved into my Fiancee's house and sold mine, I had to get a storage unit. That's a great price for a legitimate flagship sub, but I don't think it's going to fly with the lady of the house to pick up another sub. Especially when at least 3 of the ones I have in storage (and one in my little hoard-cabinet I keep at home) are XBL^2 already... not that she knows that.

    Anyone else? Accidental collectors?
    Last edited by geolemon; 1 Week Ago at 11:53 AM.

  4. Back To Top    #64
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    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    I have a feeling I would be just like you if I had the income to support my curiosity/habit. I stumbled across the CSS on PE a few weeks ago and added to my list of options for subs in my upcoming build.

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    #3 - the CSS SDX12 (specifically the 12 - you'll see the displacement capability on the 10 is significantly less noteworthy).
    I want this sub bad. I'm an old-school XBL^2 fan, and I have a feeling this is the best one yet.
    Plus I love how it looks like NOTHING, mounted. I used to assemble my prototype subs with the plainest dome dustcaps just like this, so it looked cheap and then I could surprise people.

    Unfortunately I have a bit of a sub hoarding problem, and when I moved into my Fiancee's house and sold mine, I had to get a storage unit. That's a great price for a legitimate flagship sub, but I don't think it's going to fly with the lady of the house to pick up another sub. Especially when at least 3 of the ones I have in storage (and one in my little hoard-cabinet I keep at home) are XBL^2 already... not that she knows that.

    Anyone else? Accidental collectors?
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  5. Back To Top    #65
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    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    #3 - the CSS SDX12 (specifically the 12 - you'll see the displacement capability on the 10 is significantly less noteworthy).
    EDIT: If the OP is modeling, it might even be interesting to model the SDX10 vs the SDX12 simultaneously just to illustrate why I say that.

    I personally want this SDX12 bad. I'm an old-school XBL^2 fan, and I have a feeling this is the best one yet.
    Plus I love how it looks like NOTHING, mounted. I used to assemble my prototype subs with the plainest dome dustcaps just like this, so it looked cheap and then I could surprise people.

    Unfortunately I have a bit of a sub hoarding problem, and when I moved into my Fiancee's house and sold mine, I had to get a storage unit. That's a great price for a legitimate flagship sub, but I don't think it's going to fly with the lady of the house to pick up another sub. Especially when at least 3 of the ones I have in storage (and one in my little hoard-cabinet I keep at home) are XBL^2 already... not that she knows that.

    Anyone else? Accidental collectors?
    I modeled the CSS SDX 12 in the first post but not the SDX 10. If I remember right the 12 models better but I can add it to the list. I left my laptop at work today. Very good choice BTY.
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  6. Back To Top    #66

    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    Quote Originally Posted by JCsAudio View Post
    During this holiday I have had some free time to just mess around and since its 28 degrees outside I have been messing around modeling different subwoofers and reading into their specifications. Some I have had and some I have done a lot of research into. I think I recognize that there seem to be only a few select brands and specific subwoofers that get all the love and others just get forgotten or cast aside as not worthy. So I came up with a small list of what I call under appreciated subwoofers that I think should get more press for what they are. I went through a decent amount of them mulling over Parts Express and Madisound and a few other select underground sites where the mainstream stuff doesn't exist. For reference I'm going to use the AudioFrog GB12 as the benchmark by which all these are measured since many here have had experience with this forum boner and for good reason. Here is the list that I came up with models attached. All are modeled as 12" subwoofers U.O.N and in ported boxes because I think ported boxes give the best SQ and SPL in car audio if they are tuned low, have DSP intervention, and built right. Some of these subwoofers are only available in 10" versions or just work better as 10" so I have noted as such.


    #1 Eminence Lab 12C, with a cast aluminum basket, paper cone, modest box requirements it works well for car audio and models very closely to the GB12 for less than half the price. Its one of those subwoofers that I think should be mentioned more often. I would say its only drawback is its surround may not stand up to UV rays over time in a car environment. This subwoofer only needs 500 watts (same as GB12) to get down. Lab 12c green Vb= 1.96 cu ft net fb= 31 Hz AF GB orange Vb= 1.633 Fb= 30.73 Hz . You can see in this graph that the two on 500 watts model closely and the Lab 12C has a little better sensitivity but requires a slightly larger box.

    Attachment 7871

    #2 Scan Speak Discovery 26W/4558T00. This subwoofer is a lower powered 10" subwoofer but models well in both sealed and ported configurations. It has one of the lowest F3 points when modeling sealed. In the attached graph it is in a ported box with an Vb of 1.184 and a fb of 25.28 Hz. It has a black anodized aluminum cone, cast basket, and very low distortion. If you're looking for a very low distortion subwoofer on modest power than this subwoofer should be at the top of your list. In the attached graph below both are modeled at 425 watts RMS because the Scan runs out of excursion in this box above that power level.

    Attachment 7872

    #3 CSS SDX12 XBL2 12" Subwoofer. This subwoofer is somewhat well known but still doesn't get the love it deserves. Unlike a lot of XBL subwoofers I have modeled this one does well in a ported box. It requires, like many XBL subwoofers a lot of power but it also has very low distortion too. It really wants a big box but will do fine in a smaller box for car audio. Model specifications are Vb= 2, fb= 31 hz compared to the GB12, same box specifications as above but on 600 watts. Again, CSS SDX12 (red) vs AF GB12 (orange).
    Attachment 7873


    #4 Sundown SD3 10 and Sundown SD3 12. Yeah I know it is probably one of the most popular subwoofers on forums like this but seriously this subwoofer is fantastic for the price. It has an underhung voice coil design, is relatively shallow depth, and doesnít give up Xmax or make lots of distortion either. It also hits really low in a ported box even though Sundown does not recommend it be used in a ported box. I own the SD3 10 version and it actually hits lower than my GB12 below 37 Hz with a 10" driver against a 12" driver. Sundown SD3 10 (yellow) vb= 1.577 fb= 31.49 vs AF GB12 vb= 1.633 fb= 30.73 (orange) on 500 watts.

    Attachment 7874

    Here is the Sundown SD3 12 (black) vs AF GB12 (orange) on 500 watts.

    Attachment 7875

    #5 SSA ICON 12. This subwoofer I think is really underappreciated for the specifications it has and if you really want some ass kicking lows and have the 1250 watts it demands (probably could take more) than this beast is it. Itís also a beautiful looking subwoofer in my opinion with a very attractive price for what you get. EDIT: changed the T/S parameters because I had them input wrong before which changed the model slightly.

    Here it is modeled all by itself because an AF GB12 wont hang with this thing due to different power levels. SSA ICON 12 vb= 1.75 fb= 31 Hz.

    Attachment 7892

    SSA ICON 12 (red) vs AF GB12 (orange) on 600 watts for comparison sake.

    Attachment 7893

    Well that's it for now. I'm sure I missed a bunch of them and if you want you can post them up here. If I get the time I may model them for you against the benchmark GB12 and post it here.
    What do you think of the scanspeak discovery vs it's more pricey revelator brethren? Specifically in a fairly small sealed box?

  7. Back To Top    #67

    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    Quote Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
    What do you think of the scanspeak discovery vs it's more pricey revelator brethren? Specifically in a fairly small sealed box?
    Do you mean the Scanspeak Discovery subwoofer vs the Revelator subwoofer?
    Based on the specs alone, I probably wouldn't consider either for the price tags - even for a really truly purist SQ install, they have fairly "meh" capability:
    Spec Revelator Discovery
    Price $640 $280
    Fs 21hz 17hz
    Qts .26 .32
    EBP EBP = 75, the woofer good for either closed or bass reflex. EBP = 50, the woofer is suited for sealed
    Xmax (linear - one way) 7.5mm 12.5mm
    RMS power 350w 150w
    Impedance 8 ohms 4 ohms

    Based on the above, you would want to spend at least $1300 on two Revelators, if for no other reason than to get a reasonable 4 ohm impedance for car use. At that price, you could buy a 13W7, which I'm sure would be as clean (we'd need to see the Klippel curves for these Scanspeak subs - but the W7 has a very flat BL curve, due to the cross-drilling of the pole piece) and would be as loud as two Revelators - could be as loud as three Revelators, by virtue of linear excursion alone.
    I'm sure it sounds great - but besides having a 21hz Fs (which any sub could have, either by running a heavier cone or softer suspension - both of which cause you to need a large box - I believe that's true here as well), all those specs are very middle-of-the-road... the price tag isn't justified.

    The Discovery probably actually could be used in sealed or vented, the EBP calculates pretty middle of the road, and really is brought down because of the super low Fs. It seems to have plenty of motor strength (based on Qes) to stay pretty clean in a vented box... but again, pretty middle-of-the-road specs. If you only have 150w, it could be an efficient choice if you are willing to go with a bigger box - but again, nearly $300 you could buy something like that CSS SDX 12" for not much more, and that sub (with it's inherently flat XBL^2 BL curve, and I believe matching flat CMS suspension curve) will have less intermodulation distortion than either of these two subs, and has more than double the output capability (displacement) of the Discovery, and three times the output capacity of the Revelator.

    I'm also not talking about "boom car" SPL - I'm thinking of it more like headroom. No reason to pay more and still end up with limits, these days.

  8. Back To Top    #68

    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    I was speaking about the revelator sub. I'm looking at an application where I can do a single 10 in a stealthbox. Like a jl or nvx stealthbox.

    I also need some semi shallow 10s for the front doors, and scanspeak offers those, so it seemed like a nice start. The more I think about it, the more it feels like throwing money at it, and maybe not getting the benefit of it vs some Dayton references or something else.

  9. Back To Top    #69

    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    Do you mean the Scanspeak Discovery subwoofer vs the Revelator subwoofer?
    Based on the specs alone, I probably wouldn't consider either for the price tags - even for a really truly purist SQ install, they have fairly "meh" capability:
    Spec Revelator Discovery
    Price $640 $280
    Fs 21hz 17hz
    Qts .26 .32
    EBP EBP = 75, the woofer good for either closed or bass reflex. EBP = 50, the woofer is suited for sealed
    Xmax (linear - one way) 7.5mm 12.5mm
    RMS power 350w 150w
    Impedance 8 ohms 4 ohms

    Based on the above, you would want to spend at least $1300 on two Revelators, if for no other reason than to get a reasonable 4 ohm impedance for car use. At that price, you could buy a 13W7, which I'm sure would be as clean (we'd need to see the Klippel curves for these Scanspeak subs - but the W7 has a very flat BL curve, due to the cross-drilling of the pole piece) and would be as loud as two Revelators - could be as loud as three Revelators, by virtue of linear excursion alone.
    I'm sure it sounds great - but besides having a 21hz Fs (which any sub could have, either by running a heavier cone or softer suspension - both of which cause you to need a large box - I believe that's true here as well), all those specs are very middle-of-the-road... the price tag isn't justified.

    The Discovery probably actually could be used in sealed or vented, the EBP calculates pretty middle of the road, and really is brought down because of the super low Fs. It seems to have plenty of motor strength (based on Qes) to stay pretty clean in a vented box... but again, pretty middle-of-the-road specs. If you only have 150w, it could be an efficient choice if you are willing to go with a bigger box - but again, nearly $300 you could buy something like that CSS SDX 12" for not much more, and that sub (with it's inherently flat XBL^2 BL curve, and I believe matching flat CMS suspension curve) will have less intermodulation distortion than either of these two subs, and has more than double the output capability (displacement) of the Discovery, and three times the output capacity of the Revelator.

    I'm also not talking about "boom car" SPL - I'm thinking of it more like headroom. No reason to pay more and still end up with limits, these days.
    Just wanted to point out, Madisound's specs for the Revelator sub seem off. Scan-speak's own website for the 4-Ohm 32W lists xmax at +/- 14mm (One way). https://www.scan-speak.dk/product/32w-4878t00/
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  10. Back To Top    #70
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    Re: Under appreciated Subwoofers

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    #3 - the CSS SDX12 (specifically the 12 - you'll see the displacement capability on the 10 is significantly less noteworthy).
    EDIT: If the OP is modeling, it might even be interesting to model the SDX10 vs the SDX12 simultaneously just to illustrate why I say that.

    I personally want this SDX12 bad. I'm an old-school XBL^2 fan, and I have a feeling this is the best one yet.
    Plus I love how it looks like NOTHING, mounted. I used to assemble my prototype subs with the plainest dome dustcaps just like this, so it looked cheap and then I could surprise people.

    Unfortunately I have a bit of a sub hoarding problem, and when I moved into my Fiancee's house and sold mine, I had to get a storage unit. That's a great price for a legitimate flagship sub, but I don't think it's going to fly with the lady of the house to pick up another sub. Especially when at least 3 of the ones I have in storage (and one in my little hoard-cabinet I keep at home) are XBL^2 already... not that she knows that.

    Anyone else? Accidental collectors?
    I had a few to get this one modeled. I was kind of shocked that the 10 nearly matches the 12 in output but with a larger box. See also attached PDF for your review.


    BassBox Pro CSS SDX 12 (red).pdfClick image for larger version. 

Name:	CSS SDX 12 (red) vs SDX 10 (orange).jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	128.6 KB 
ID:	14687
    BassBox Pro CSS SDX 10 (orange).pdf
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