Speaker sound quality question

[jtrosky]

So I was wondering... Nowdays, since we have inexpensive, but accurate measurement equipment and high-power DSP's that allow you to "shape" a speaker response curve as much as you want, does that make speaker quality less important? I mean before DSP's, you pretty much had to live with the "native" speaker frequency response curve. You could alter installation positions and do *some* EQ, but the speaker basically sounded the way it sounded - and I'm assuming that more expensive speakers just had a better frequency response than less expensive speakers.

But with todays DSP's, you can basically alter the frequency response of a speaker any way that you want. So if your speakers are able to handle the power and frequency range that you need, what makes one speaker sound better than another - assuming that you are getting the exact same frequency response from both after DSP tuning?

I'm just trying to understand what makes one speaker so much better than another nowdays, when we have the ability to alter a speakers frequency response so much with powerful DSP processors and measurement equipment.

[dumdum]

Cone materials, motor/coil design, suspension, surround all have a part to play, there is no set way to decide if a speaker will sound decent or not... but I think while response is important there are lots more quality’s that are equally important... if not more so as you can’t dial in timbre, warmth (to a degree you can, but the base speaker goes a long way to help), low distortion and a load of other stuff we like in speakers

[jtrosky]

So basically you are saying that measurements really don't tell the whole story? Looking at it from a "scientific" point of view, it just seems that if a calibration microphone measures the exact same frequency response, then it would sound the same. I completely get that there are other non-sound-quality-related aspects that would make a price difference (looks, durability, etc), but I guess I just don't understand why two speakers that measure the same wouldn't sound the same (or at least very close).

At the very least, I'd think that modern high-powered DSP's can make inexpensive speakers sound a lot better than their price point - and obviously better than they would sound otherwise. You'd think that DSP's would help narrow the gap between inexpensive and more expensive speakers.

I'm pretty new at this "high end" stuff, but I guess I'm struggling to believe that a $600 set of 6x9 midbass speakers would really sound significantly better than a $200 set of 6x9 speakers (for example) - again, assuming the speakers are physically capable of doing what you want them to do - and that they are tuned to produce the same output.

Just thought it would be an interesting discussion....

[BigAl205]

For most people, there is a point of diminishing returns. For instance, are you willing to spend 10x the price for a 25% gain in performance? Of course, there are differences in design (higher R&D costs), better materials, and better power handling/heat dissipation. In my experience, one of the biggest factors is linearity. Sure, you can make almost anything sound good at a certain volume...but when you start changing that volume, the driver starts sounding like week-old ass.

[Jdunk54nl]

If you could get a cheap speaker to only play in its sweet spot and measure that against a more expensive speaker in that same zone, they should sound very similar if not the same. ****Note***cheap doesn't necessarily refer to price in my opinion****

But, the cheaper speaker will probably have a smaller sweet frequency zone. The sweet zone for the speaker is more than just the FR, this includes a lot of the T/S specs. Is it distorting? Is the BL starting to trend away from ideal? Is it made for a sealed, ported, IB, etc. enclosure? What is the physical size of the speaker? etc.

I think this article done by Justin Zazzi could help explain some of this stuff. It compares the gb60 ($900) to the SI tm65 mk2 ($300).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x151rliohp...02.11.pdf?dl=0

[SkizeR]

does that make speaker quality less important?

No. at the end of the day, a DSP cannot fix a speaker's enclosure requirements, its mechanical and thermal power handling, its output potential, its bandwidth, its resistance to whatever environment you put it in, and most importantly its distortion. A speaker with a good, linear response out of the gate is a good hint that its non-linear distortion performance is good.

[Smitty]

I agree with the others. A DSP can help nudge and shape frequency response. It does not correct distortion, transient response, or linearity.
The speaker may make noise in the desired frequency range but if it lacks articulation or changes its sound profile with changes in volume, it will still sound like a crap speaker.
I agree cheap doesn't always mean price since rice is not the sole indicator of sound quality.

[cueball981]

Wondering if the placebo affect has something to do with it? Thinking for example comparing $200 to $20,000 RCAs. We want things to sound superior, or we perceive them to sound superior to justify to ourselves the greater amount we spend. Yes, there normally is a correlation between price and quality, but sometimes not so much. Marketing and advertising, without us even knowing it, has conditioned us...no...more like manipulated us to the point where can we truly believe anything said about anything anymore? I think it's sometimes much more difficult to say "trust your ears" when there's a great chance our own minds are playing tricks on us.

[Hillbilly SQ]

Wondering if the placebo affect has something to do with it? Thinking for example comparing $200 to $20,000 RCAs. We want things to sound superior, or we perceive them to sound superior to justify to ourselves the greater amount we spend. Yes, there normally is a correlation between price and quality, but sometimes not so much. Marketing and advertising, without us even knowing it, has conditioned us...no...more like manipulated us to the point where can we truly believe anything said about anything anymore? I think it's sometimes much more difficult to say "trust your ears" when there's a great chance our own minds are playing tricks on us.

When it comes to rca's and speaker wires I totally believe in placebo effect. There should be zero difference in how wires sound unless there's something wrong with said wire (undersized/bad connections, etc) and/or there is a passive filter in them to change the sound on purpose. Quality of construction has its value but snake oil is just that...snake oil.

With speakers a $10 "fullrange" from Madisound or Partsexpress can sound just as good as a $200 speaker of the same size. How that speaker holds its composure once power is dumped on it is what sets it apart from the rest. Say for example you take a $15 2.5" wideband from Tymphany and put it up against an Audiofrog gb25. Both are 2.5". Difference is one is gonna fall on its face with any real power put on it and the other is going to chew it up, spit it out, and beg for more while keeping its composure at crazy high volume. Care to guess which one can take the heat without coming up short? So, it's not placebo effect when a speaker can walk all over lesser cheaper counterparts. The problem is figuring out which speakers are worth the money and which as just plain overpriced. What someone runs in their system and drops big coin in is their business. And a lot of people in this hobby are smart enough to know what's worth the money and what's just overpriced. As for people who trust their local car audio shop about what's good and what's not, good luck to you. I've found that car audio shops that won't try to pull the wool over someone's eyes just to make a dollar are few and far between. This is why I think it's always a wise choice to do your research before dropping hundreds or even thousands on equipment. I also think the fullrange tweeterless fad has mostly run its course in aftermarket car audio.

[JCsAudio]

What Skize said is pretty much everything especially the distortion. No DSP is going to hide distortion especially odd order distortion and low distortion is what contributes to clarity especially at higher SPL.