Helix DSP.3 help thread

[auditorycanvas]

Right... But if I didn't use the app - how would I turn those levels up and down? Or is the app pretty much "mandatory"? When I initially connected everything on the bench in the house to mess with it, I couldn't get any output. Then I loaded the Android app and found all of the volume levels defaulted to being turned down all of the way, which is why I wasn't getting any output.

So if I never loaded the Android app and messed with it, I would have been stuck for a while. :-) I guess I was thinking the app was "optional" and that it wasn't needed to use the DSP.3 - but without the app, I would have never had any output at all.

Similar thing got me. I just finished an install with a DSP.3 and a few Mosconi amps. First turn on, no sounds...after getting over the gut sinking feeling and checking for smoke, i checked the wiring several times, until it dawned on me to try turning the volume on the URC.3....bingo! Like you, if I hadn't have ordered the URC.3, I would have been stumped....

This thread has been gold for info, tips, and reassurance. @SkizeR's videos and posts have also been super helpful, though I think I'm at the point of wanting to take it to someone for a proper tune, or at least a remote tune. Trouble with not doing this for years, or day in day out as a trade, is not having a reference - i.e. not knowing how it should/could sound, so not really knowing if you happened to fluke a great tune, or it you're a mile away from what it can do....

[jtrosky]

Similar thing got me. I just finished an install with a DSP.3 and a few Mosconi amps. First turn on, no sounds...after getting over the gut sinking feeling and checking for smoke, i checked the wiring several times, until it dawned on me to try turning the volume on the URC.3....bingo! Like you, if I hadn't have ordered the URC.3, I would have been stumped....

This thread has been gold for info, tips, and reassurance. @SkizeR's videos and posts have also been super helpful, though I think I'm at the point of wanting to take it to someone for a proper tune, or at least a remote tune. Trouble with not doing this for years, or day in day out as a trade, is not having a reference - i.e. not knowing how it should/could sound, so not really knowing if you happened to fluke a great tune, or it you're a mile away from what it can do....

Glad it wasn't just me... :-) With the DSP.3 and other newer ACO-capable models, it's no big deal (once you know about it) since you can download the app and control the volume levels that way, but if I wasn't able to use the Android app, I would have been stuck like chuck... It sounds like either the URC.3 and/or the Android app is absolutely necessary - otherwise, you'd have no way to turn the overall volume up. Certainly didn't see that coming. You'd think that those 4 overall volume levels would be somewhere in the Windows app as well. I understand it's not really "tuning related", but it's still needed to make things work.

Who knows, I may get a URC.3 as well in the future - depending on how much I see the need for it. I typically try to get my sub set to where it works for me for all music types, so I don't typically change my sub volume level, so not sure I really needed the URC.3. While the Android app does the job, it's not something that you'd use to control the sub volume "on the fly" (have to connect to Helix wifi, open the app, etc - too cumbersome for on-the-fly volume changes).

[jtrosky]

When I went to set my amp gains after my DSR-1 -> AP4/DSP.3 upgrade, I didn't get the expected results.

First - some background. The DSR-1 was analog between head-unit and DSP. I went digital (optical) between the head-unit and DSP.3 with the AmpPro 4/DSP.3. The DSR-1 had 4V outputs. The DSP.3 has 6V outputs.

I want to make sure I get all of the voltage/gain stuff correct... :-) I briefly talked about this above, but want to revisit now that I've taken some measurements.

I set gains by using 1kHz sine wave (0db) - before any crossovers are set on the DSP.3. All speakers disconnected. Head-unit typically set to volume 29 out of 39 (~75%).

My amp (JL Audio XD600/6v2) is capable of 200mv - 8v input voltages - but it has a "Low/High" Input Voltage switch that creates two different "ranges" for the input voltage. Normally, the Low setting is for line-level inputs and the High setting is for speaker level inputs, but since the DSP.3 has such high line-level output voltages, I believe that I should be using the "High" setting (probably should have done that with the DSR-1 as well since it had 4V outputs, but...) - the amp manual does mention that you may need to use the High setting for certain high-voltage line-level output devices. The Low setting is for 200mV - 2V inputs and the High setting is for 800mV - 8V inputs. So the plan was to use the "High" input voltage setting (since the Helix has 6V output voltage). When I set gains while using the "High" setting, I have to set the gains considerably higher than when I use the "Low" setting - but wouldn't that give me a higher "noise floor" since the gain is set higher? Or does changing the switch setting basically make is so the gain settings are completely different between the two switch settings and that is why I have to set the gains higher when on the "High" input voltage setting - and it doesn't necessarily mean that the "noise floor" will be any higher? On the Low switch setting, the gains end up about 10 or 11 o'clock. On the High switch settings, the gains end up about 1 or 2 o'clock (can't remember the exact positions).

Since I'm going digital between head-unit and DSP, there really is no voltage to be measured coming out of the head-unit. I have NOT yet measured the voltage coming out of the DSP.3. I do have a Liumy oscilloscope - would you recommend that I monitor the DSP.3 output and see what head-unit volume level the signal starts clipping at and use the volume level right before that when setting amp gains? And then set my amp gains after that with the Liumy as well (again, to right before clipping)? This would allow me to get the most out of my system, right? Something else to note is that since my 3.5" dash speakers and 6x9 door speakers came as a component set, I've found that I need to keeps gains set exactly the same for them (even though you'd think the 3.5" dash speakers would require a lower gain - but they actually require the same gain as the 6x9 speakers).

Thoughts? Could really use the help of those more qualified for this part! :-) Like I said, I think getting the gains set properly is a very important step! :-) Hopefully, I can put my Liumy to good use here. :-)

Thank you - sorry for the super-long post - but wanted to give you all of the details.

[SkizeR]

you are way over thinking it. set the gains, verify that there is no noise, and get tuning. If there is noise in your specific situation, lower amp gains until acceptable.

[jtrosky]

you are way over thinking it. set the gains, verify that there is no noise, and get tuning. If there is noise in your specific situation, lower amp gains until acceptable.

So I don't have to worry about "overdriving" the amp inputs from the Helix outputs at all?? I mean if an amp (or my under-seat sub, for example) is only capable of 2V on the inputs, I don't have to worry about the Helix sending up to 6V to those inputs from the Helix (max, obviously, but still possible, right)? If I truly don't need to worry about it, then that is great - I just want to be sure - I just don't want to damage my amp, my under-sear sub or my speakers if I can avoid it. :-)

Also - I'm curious - do most people use 0db sine waves for gain setting or -5dB? Keep in mind that I only have 75W RMS per channel, so I just want to make the best use of it as I tend to like loud music.

I'm also kind of curious about the head-unit "max" volume. I have a feeling my stock head-unit can go over 75% volume before clipping, but I'd like to confirm that. Is the o-scope the best way to determine that (check DSP outputs for clipping with o-scope)? Again, just trying to get the most from my setup...

Thanks.

[Babs]

Hey guys don't know if it's already covered.. My search skills poor today.

Is there a way in the new version of the tool to freeze the RTA screen so it'll quit moving around when you want to go back to the main screen to do manual EQ work?
Or is there a trick for this for ease of doing EQ while using RTA?

Seems like earlier versions the RTA screen would only partially cover the main screen in full-screen mode as a purposeful way so you could adjust EQ without a bunch of screen minimizing etc.

[auditorycanvas]

Hey guys don't know if it's already covered.. My search skills poor today.

Is there a way in the new version of the tool to freeze the RTA screen so it'll quit moving around when you want to go back to the main screen to do manual EQ work?
Or is there a trick for this for ease of doing EQ while using RTA?

Seems like earlier versions the RTA screen would only partially cover the main screen in full-screen mode as a purposeful way so you could adjust EQ without a bunch of screen minimizing etc.

If you hit "stop measurement" it will freeze the white RTA line, you can then also hit "stop analyzer" if you want the red line to stop moving around too. You can resize the RTA window to suit, as well as move it around. If it defaults to full screen, just double click the top bar/title bar and it should go to resizable mode. It will remain over the top, so you can resize it and move it to a point that lets you see it and work on the EQ at the same time.

You can also take a snapshot by right clicking one of the memory buttons along the top.

You can also hit the Set EQ button, which will set the required EQs for you if you want to copy the RTA curve preciseley.

It's also worth giving the Auto EQ option a try - similar to the Set EQ function, but continuously takes measurements and makes adjustments to the selected channels automatically until it nails the curve. Skizer has posted a video about it, and how to use it which I found really helpful: https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/show...kies-Exclusive

[jtrosky]

In the DSP.3 IO matrix config, there are three matrices - "Main Routing", "HEX/Aux Routing" and "Digital Routing".

In my case, since I'm only ever going to use the optical digital input on the Helix, is there any advantage to assigning my "Digital In L" and "Digital In R" inputs directly in the "Main Routing" matrix instead of in the "Digital Routing" matrix, like I have it now? I wonder if the audio output would start any faster that way (thinking out loud). Right now, it takes a few seconds after my head-unit starts playing before I get any audio - maybe the audio output will be faster if I defined the digital inputs in the "Main Routing" matrix?

Not a big deal at all (I'm only talking about a few second delay before audio starts), but was just curious if maybe using the "Main Routing" matrix for the digital inputs would be a better option in my case.

[dobslob]

Glad it wasn't just me... :-) With the DSP.3 and other newer ACO-capable models, it's no big deal (once you know about it) since you can download the app and control the volume levels that way, but if I wasn't able to use the Android app, I would have been stuck like chuck... It sounds like either the URC.3 and/or the Android app is absolutely necessary - otherwise, you'd have no way to turn the overall volume up. Certainly didn't see that coming. You'd think that those 4 overall volume levels would be somewhere in the Windows app as well. I understand it's not really "tuning related", but it's still needed to make things work.

.

There is no need to use anything to control the WiFi module as long as you don't tell the DSP to use WiFi control in the software. If you don't click that box for WiFi control then it operates as any other of our DSPs.

[dobslob]

When I went to set my amp gains after my DSR-1 -> AP4/DSP.3 upgrade, I didn't get the expected results.

First - some background. The DSR-1 was analog between head-unit and DSP. I went digital (optical) between the head-unit and DSP.3 with the AmpPro 4/DSP.3. The DSR-1 had 4V outputs. The DSP.3 has 6V outputs.

I want to make sure I get all of the voltage/gain stuff correct... :-) I briefly talked about this above, but want to revisit now that I've taken some measurements.

I set gains by using 1kHz sine wave (0db) - before any crossovers are set on the DSP.3. All speakers disconnected. Head-unit typically set to volume 29 out of 39 (~75%).

My amp (JL Audio XD600/6v2) is capable of 200mv - 8v input voltages - but it has a "Low/High" Input Voltage switch that creates two different "ranges" for the input voltage. Normally, the Low setting is for line-level inputs and the High setting is for speaker level inputs, but since the DSP.3 has such high line-level output voltages, I believe that I should be using the "High" setting (probably should have done that with the DSR-1 as well since it had 4V outputs, but...) - the amp manual does mention that you may need to use the High setting for certain high-voltage line-level output devices. The Low setting is for 200mV - 2V inputs and the High setting is for 800mV - 8V inputs. So the plan was to use the "High" input voltage setting (since the Helix has 6V output voltage). When I set gains while using the "High" setting, I have to set the gains considerably higher than when I use the "Low" setting - but wouldn't that give me a higher "noise floor" since the gain is set higher? Or does changing the switch setting basically make is so the gain settings are completely different between the two switch settings and that is why I have to set the gains higher when on the "High" input voltage setting - and it doesn't necessarily mean that the "noise floor" will be any higher? On the Low switch setting, the gains end up about 10 or 11 o'clock. On the High switch settings, the gains end up about 1 or 2 o'clock (can't remember the exact positions).

Since I'm going digital between head-unit and DSP, there really is no voltage to be measured coming out of the head-unit. I have NOT yet measured the voltage coming out of the DSP.3. I do have a Liumy oscilloscope - would you recommend that I monitor the DSP.3 output and see what head-unit volume level the signal starts clipping at and use the volume level right before that when setting amp gains? And then set my amp gains after that with the Liumy as well (again, to right before clipping)? This would allow me to get the most out of my system, right? Something else to note is that since my 3.5" dash speakers and 6x9 door speakers came as a component set, I've found that I need to keeps gains set exactly the same for them (even though you'd think the 3.5" dash speakers would require a lower gain - but they actually require the same gain as the 6x9 speakers).

Thoughts? Could really use the help of those more qualified for this part! :-) Like I said, I think getting the gains set properly is a very important step! :-) Hopefully, I can put my Liumy to good use here. :-)

Thank you - sorry for the super-long post - but wanted to give you all of the details.

You won't get any clipping of signal on the DSP.3 as long as you didn't unblock the Digital Clipping Protection box in the DCM menu. It limits the output from being overdriven. In the main screen of the Helix software you can see when the output is getting close to maximim output behind the "Channel Gain & Output Level" slider. Keeping the DSP out of the red except for extreme peaks is the key.

I'm not sure what to do with the JL amplifiers. I'd think that you would be fine on low with minimum sensitivity, but I have't played much with them. The output of the DSP.3 is said to be 6v but I have measured 7v and more on certain tracks. You would need to test the outputs of the JL to know for sure what it will do.