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Thread: Helix DSP.3 help thread

  1. Back To Top    #141
    Owner BigAl205's Avatar
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    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Queef View Post
    Boost it , if you can ! If U don't like results , unboost it .
    What have you got to lose ? YOLO

    The noise that enters a beam of light is Zero/zilch/none. Now magnetically induced noise in a wire made of copper , 'Skys the Limit' !
    Your nonsensical bullshit is getting old

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    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread


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    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread

    There is an output level on the Amppro.

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    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl205 View Post
    Your nonsensical bullshit is getting old
    BigFish by Tim Burton is based in Alabama ( I couldn't in good conscience call you out when it comes to knowing B.S. )!

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    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread

    Are you getting noise in your system? If not then don't worry about the amp gain. All those knobs are for is to match gain. If the gain is matched, and you have zero noise, why fix what isn't broke? You are not going to gain (pun intended) anything by turning one knob up and the other one down if there is zero noise.

    If you have noise, then yes, turning down the amp gains CAN help lower the noise level, but that is never a guarantee because maybe the DSP is causing the noise (I doubt it but it might) and turning up the DSP input/output could actually cause more noise.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

  6. Back To Top    #146

    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread

    Quote Originally Posted by papacueball View Post
    There is an output level on the Amppro.
    Are you talking about what they call the "Minimum Volume" level that can be set with the little rotary knob included with the AP4? I wasn't sure if that was a true "gain" control or if it was just altering the volume "steps" of the volume control, meaning that the max output level would remain the same, just that the amount of increase of each volume step would change slightly. I'll have to try that and see if that actually changes the output levels at all volumes or just lower volume levels. Wasn't real sure what that actually did or didn't do. Not everything works the same with the optical output either (for example, no bass knob function when using digital, which makes sense). There isn't much documentation on the AP4 optical output and how it acts differently than the analog outputs. I'm definitely not a fan of how the AP4 digital output works in regards to "overlaying" Android Auto navigation instructions, etc. Instead of just lowering the volume and overlaying the nav instructions smoothly, there is a brief cutout, then the instruction, then another very brief cutout before the music comes back full volume. At least I'm assuming it's a "side effect" of using the AP4 optical output. Was buttery smooth with the DSR-1 using analog outputs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl View Post
    Are you getting noise in your system? If not then don't worry about the amp gain. All those knobs are for is to match gain. If the gain is matched, and you have zero noise, why fix what isn't broke? You are not going to gain (pun intended) anything by turning one knob up and the other one down if there is zero noise.

    If you have noise, then yes, turning down the amp gains CAN help lower the noise level, but that is never a guarantee because maybe the DSP is causing the noise (I doubt it but it might) and turning up the DSP input/output could actually cause more noise.
    Of course there is noise - any/every amp has an audible "noise floor". If the music is loud enough and there is a quiet part of the song, there is always going to be some "noise floor" hiss. It would just seem to me that you'd want to keep the power amp gains as low as possible, while still getting the volume level you want/need (which is the reason most people prefer higher voltages on the low-level analog outputs, so they can keep the amp gains as low as possible). Since I don't have any low-level gain settings on the AmpPro for the optical output (unless the "minimum volume" setting talked about above is actually a gain control), I was just thinking that "boosting" the digital signal on the DSP input would introduce considerably less "noise floor" hiss than "boosting" the analog signals via the power amp gains - but maybe I'm wrong about that - which is why I asked.

    Just trying to "optimize" things as much as possible - and learn some stuff. :-)

    Just because I have a "theory" doesn't mean it will hold water in real life. :-) Obviously, I can go and test it, but I always like talking about something like this first, just to make sure there isn't some drawback that I'm not aware of or even to see if it's really a good idea or not. :-)

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    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread

    Yes, there will be a noise floor. But that noise floor definitely can change and be lower/higher. I have noise that at full volume on my HU I have to put my ear next to any of my speakers to be able to hear. I can't hear it sitting in my drivers seat. If your noise floor was like mine, then why change what is working? If it isn't then yes, I would try some other things to get rid of it.

    I wouldn't expect the noise floor to be raised by lowering the amp gain and raising the DSP input/output gains. I would expect some noise to actually go away with a helix dsp.3 gains being higher and the amps gains being lower. Or at least no change in the noise floor. But that may not be the case and it is possible to actually cause more noise. That is something you will have to test if the noise floor is more than you can tolerate.
    2014 F150 Limited -> Kenwood DDX-9907xr -> Helix DSP.2 -> Alpine PDX-V9 -> SI M25 mki in Valicar Stuttgart Pods, Rear SB17's, Sub SI BM MKV's in MTI BOX. Alpine PDX-F6 -> SI Tm65 mkIV, SI M3 mkI in Valicar Stuttgart Pods

  8. Back To Top    #148

    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread

    This conversation is theoretical at this point. I haven't noticed a significant noise floor since upgrading to the DSP.3, but I haven't really checked for it either. I have heard some hiss on some songs, but it could be in the recording itself (older music). The reason I mentioned it was simply because I'm not seeing any colors on the channel gain bar in the DSP.3 - ever - even at very loud volumes (no blue, no red, etc - just black), which has me thinking that the digital signal coming from my amppro may be very low for some reason... So I need to explore a few different things (AmpPro "minimum volume" setting, check for any significant noise floor with a "silence" noise track, possibly raising optical input gain on DSP.3 and lowering amp gain if needed, etc).

    I haven't spent much time playing with the AP4/DSP.3 yet - just got a decent, maybe "final" tune in it yesterday. Working on it in very short 'bursts" so far. Sounds fantastic so far though. :-) I don't have any volume level issues with "local" media (mp3, flac, etc), XM or even FM, but if there is a particularly quiet song playing over AndroidAuto, I *could* run out of volume if I wanted it REALLY loud. Just trying to fine-tune everything. May just end up setting gains via Android Auto so that I'm covered no matter what (instead of setting gains with the louder USB local file input).

    As usual, thanks for the input everyone!

  9. Back To Top    #149
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    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread

    Al called me on it already .

  10. Back To Top    #150

    Re: Helix DSP.3 help thread

    Ok, for what it's worth, I was *finally* able to see a very small, very quick glimpse of the blue background in the "Channel Gain & Output Level" field on one of my channels. :-) Apparently, you don't see the blue background until you get up to at least -25dB (or somewhere near that). So that is why I wasn't seeing the colored backgrounds - the signal was just never high enough. I was able to see it by boosting the optical input in the IO screen (just for testing). At least now I know it's working. :-)

    I still think that the digital signal going into the DSP.3 is kind of low for whatever reason - and that I would be able to reduce the gains on my amps by quite a bit if I boost the digital input signal (by maybe 3dB-6dB). I did briefly mess with the AmpPro 4 "Minimum Volume Level" setting, but if I were to increase that by any significant amount, then my head-unit would be too loud for my liking at it's lowest volume setting - so boosting the digital input in the DSP.3 would definitely be the best option.

    Playing a "silence" track, I was able to easily hear some noise floor hiss at the last few volume level settings on my head-unit - but it would be *extremely* rare for me to have the system turned up that high, so it's not something that is a big deal. I still may mess with the digital input level and amp gain levels though, just out of curiosity to see if I can reduce the "noise floor" hiss even more. :-) I didn't check to see if there was any "noise floor" hiss when nothing was playing at all, but I'm thinking that I won't since my OEM head-unit mutes the outputs when not playing anything.

    Will experiment some more to see if I can remove the "noise floor" hiss completely, just because... :-)

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