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Thread: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

  1. Back To Top    #21

    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    Wow, nice work, man!!!
    2019 Jeep Wrangler 2 Door - Morel Elate 3 way, Mmats HiFi 6150 & M2000.2, Hutchinson NDFEB 10", MiniDSP w/DL, Fiio X5

    #TRUMP2020

  2. Back To Top    #22
    Noob NoDestiny's Avatar
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    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    Thanks, David!

    Here's my work on porting. It's tuned to about 22hz and gives a very solid boost across the board. For SQ, very unnecessary. For SPL, definitely necessary. Like the rest of my enclosure, it's modular. I also made a block off plate to go sealed, for space savings mostly. Made mostly of 1/2" ply, some 1/4" MDF as well. Used aluminum tape to keep it as smooth as possible. 12" wide and 2.75" long, about 27-3/8" deep. Was a complex little beast, but I'm pretty happy with how the lows produce now. Subwoofer inverted for now to monitor power handling of subwoofer, since I went 1-ohm (amp produces ~1650watts at 1 ohm, though testing shows 1.5 ohms is the lowest this sub ever really goes).

    I'm still playing with various levels of polyfill inside. With the full 4.5lbs, the port only gained me around 1dB total. Pulled over 2lbs and now I'm seeing 3-4dB gain! So I might pull a little more and try to maximize my gains in the lower 20hz region (if it gets any better). I don't care any for 19hz and lower... I have 4 Fi Audio IB318's in my living room, I get my fix of ultra low frequency there.

    I'm hoping to start working on some trim work soon. Would really like to have a functional trunk soon.
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  3. Back To Top    #23

    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    Looking great.
    What are your plans for trim? Carpet? Vinyl? Or something wild?

  4. Back To Top    #24
    Noob NoDestiny's Avatar
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    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    I'm pretty sure I'm going to build paneling that goes stealthy and makes it look stock. The amprack/box area is much like where the stock hybrid battery box was. The port is about where the CD changer was. Spare tire sticking up will just get covered in carpet as most people wouldn't know the difference. I'll put the sub back in normal like and get a grill on it for the storage bin. I'll have panels that will remove and maybe do some fiberglass and paint work for the pretty effect of the install. I'm hoping to start working on my trunk soon as I have all the supplies, just haven't had the time/motivation!

    Attached is a random searched up pic of the trunk. You can see where the bin opens up. So won't be 100% the same, but I should get it close enough that the average joe wouldn't have an idea, only those familiar with the Insight trunk would be go "Hmmmm something's not right..."
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  5. Back To Top    #25

    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    That's the factory trunk? I didn't realize the floor WAS so high.

    That's a cool idea - so basically it would all be buried below that floor, and you'd still even have some additional storage below that (maybe an old-school waffle grille would even cover you there - not factoring excursion of course). Nice.

  6. Back To Top    #26
    Noob NoDestiny's Avatar
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    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    I did a lot yesterday. I wanted to know the effects of Polyfill on my enclosure, so I set out on a journey!

    First, to get the polyfill out, I needed to remove the sub and port to get to the front plate and it's 26 screws. Once I was in there and got it all out, I decided to tighten up all the bolts and screws that hold everything together. I wanted the sub to go back to non-inverted, as I was testing power limits of the Ultimax carefully. (on heavy bass tracks, like Decaf stuff, I can get my deck to 32/35 all day, no issue. 33 will run for a while before you get a mild odor. 34 and 35 are for short duration only, like 3-5 seconds!). I noticed the bottom of the magnet of the subwoofer was kinda of scraped up, so I measured and sure enough, it was hitting the bottom of the enclosure! Talk about a tight fit... so I made a 1/4" ring to space it up a bit. I also used aluminum duct tape on the inside baffle wall to smoothen that out and further seal it. Then it was testing time...

    I compared 0.0lbs, 1.0lbs, and 2.0lbs of polyfill at the drivers headrest and at the dash, with all 4 of my port options. I did both the DATS and REW sweeps. Long process.

    The biggest take away is: My box doesn't need polyfill. It does 2 things: lowers tuning and reduces a resonance around 120hz. I don't need tuning lowered, though the resonance bothers me (it's an octave above my lowest xover point in any settings, still going to be producing sound at this point!) The other end of this: I get significantly higher output on my SPL tuning! Take a loot at my charts...

    Sealed = no real difference (outside of the resonance).
    SQL Port (2.75" x 12" - 27.375"L) = Sealed up cab at headrest, I have 0.5dB gain at 20hz with 1lb of polyfill, but loose nearly 1dB through ~25-50hz. At the Dash (for Psychlone SPL points), I gain a few tenths of a dB with no poly around my 22hz target.
    SPL Port (5 3/8" x 14.25" - 8"L) = HUGE difference! 1lb of poly alone ate ~2.3dB!

    So I'll play around a bit with less than 1lb of poly to see if I can rid of that resonance, without loosing my output.

    Also, for demoing and overall trying to go deaf from the extreme lows, I compared a sealed up cab to dropping the passenger window 1" at a time, as well as the drivers door open. Take a look! A single inch "cracked" window makes an incredible difference!
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  7. Back To Top    #27

    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    Those window differences are definitely interesting...
    It actually shows that there's some cancellations, since rolling down the window is letting sound pressure out - so, if there were no cancellations, you'd be losing your room gain a little at a time.
    It went up - so there's a cancellation going on.

    I know you are pretty locked into that sub position, but this is a good thing to find for SPL comp goals.
    You know what would be fun to try out - make a panel, or actually make it two, maybe 30" wide each and nearly as tall as your ceiling so you can move them around. Put some feet on them so they can stand - ideally rigidly (so they don't vibrate and absorb sound) but in a way that you can overlap them and screw them together.

    Play with some walls - one panel on each side with a center opening (though that one I doubt most), two panels overlapped on one side with small opening, two panels overlapped on that side with a bigger opening... same on the other side...
    See if you can break those up, for SPL?

  8. Back To Top    #28
    Noob NoDestiny's Avatar
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    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    Quick update: I did a TON of tuning. Repeated left and right ear micing. Hearing "whoooOOOOOP" a million times gets old, but was worth it. Did the pink noise on an inverted driver timing, the imaging is really amazing! That "center stage" effect and the overall clarity at any volume, love it. I have my DSP set to...

    1. Driver's seat flat response
    2. Driver's seat road curve
    3. Passenger's seat setting
    4. SPL setting

    -The first setting should be pretty obvious. All drivers are EQ'd, crossed 70hz/250hz/3000hz 24db/oct and aims for the flattest possible response for both sides. Driver's side is easily the hardest to get flat.
    -The second is set to help with mostly highway road noise. Copied first setting, then sub is +2dB, mids and tweets -1dB, and an overall EQ of -3dB High-Shelf at 160hz (Q:0.5) and a 3K -1.5db (Q:1.7)
    -The third setting was a quick tune for the passenger side. Need to work on this one more, probably keep flat response.
    -The fourth setting copies the first setting, then remove all subwoofer and midbass EQ, puts the subwoofer with max output, midbass at -1.5, and mids and tweets at -3dB. xover moved to 90hz 48db/oct and 10hz 48db/oct subsonic.

    Very enjoyable thus far.

    Next steps are getting my pillars complete (with grills to stealth and protect from sunlight), get my rear fill installed (Dayton PS95-8s), and finish my trunk.
    2000 Honda Insight (64-96MPG, 77MPG Avg Tank!)
    -Kenwood HU, MiniDSP, Zapco amps
    -Dayton silky tweets, Hertz 700.3 pillar mids, Dayton Ref 7" doors
    -Dayton 15" Ultimax, 5 cubes ported 22hz

  9. Back To Top    #29

    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    Sweet! Is the thought with the road noise tune basically to boost the low end to overcome that noise and decrease the high end so it’s not overbearing with the increased volume?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. Back To Top    #30

    Re: 2000 Honda Insight - SQL build (Dayton, Zapco)

    I was thinking about trying to take a "while driving" curve myself, awesome. Definitely interested in how that works out.

    But you know what - and maybe this is a future Rasberry Pi programming project for me...
    ...why the hell don't these DSP units have an option to hang some tiny mics (like in-car hands-free mics), or to actually use an existing bluetooth mic, and essentially do the "noise cancelling headphones" trick?

    Yeah, that's cool in headphones, but it doesn't seem like rocket science to pull off... Definitely could have a separate in-line processor to do it.
    Have a mic taking in the real-time ambient sound [from somewhere the music isn't - that's probably the trick... maybe a box behind the firewall?], flip the phase, feed it in. There's definitely a time-alignment consideration and you can't delay "real time", so maybe could just mix this in right at the amp inputs. But still, doesn't seem like rocket science and sounds like a fun experiment.

    Ever heard of anyone trying active noise cancellation? I feel like there was a luxury car once that had this feature, but I can't think of it... and since I've seen too many Doug DeMuro videos going through Bentley's and Rolls Royce's and haven't seen it mentioned, maybe not...

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