LEVLHED's 2013 Ford Flex SEL (non Sony) audio build :)

[Lanson]

Howdy,

I used Bravox silk tweets, from one of the discontinued Carbon Fiber component sets I had in my last Flex. Very, very good. The Non-Sony A-pillar cradle setup is actually sized a little bigger than the Sony one, it turns out. You can probably get some decent tweets in there. I've learned long ago that you don't need to necessarily spend a lot to get a lot with audio speakers. I would just pull and panel and measure, and if you want to do some cutting there's all sorts of room up there. You could easily glass or resin in some large format units if you want. A-pillars run under $100 for stock ones, if you feel like getting frisky and want to cut some fresh plastic to make for bigger gear.

I could see lots of things happening then.


Oh, I had much better results with MS8 tuning when I turned it way, way down when I calibrated. When it is too loud, the mics don't seem to do a good job. I get mine at -30dB with my amp gains leveled so the white noise tests put them all *about* equal, and then calibrate with a fresh tune. MS-8 tuning seems to work better for me when I fully clear the unit before going in. After the initial calibration, then I usually bring up the mid amp channels just a few dB, and then do the rest of the work with the graphic EQ. So far, so good for me.

I stomped out a little vibration that surfaced in the driver's side door...it was the window/lock switch mech/panel. Just applied some left over deadener, seems to have done the trick. Still messing with the MS-8 tune. Seems like a delicate gain balance needs to be figured out during the calibration to get both a proper front sound stage and the subs sounding right. I've got it pretty close now, not sure if I can find the right balance during the setup to get the best of both. Seems like I end up with either good bass or good sound stage. Right now I think I have both with a slight compromise in the general mid-hi EQ. I got tired of messing around this afternoon so I stopped tweaking for now.

I can't figure out what is going on with this tweeter distortion yet....think I'll end up using it as a justification for upgrading tweeters already. It's just a certain frequency band that certain songs seem to hit more than others. I tried raising the kick/tweet crossover to 4k (from 3500hz), didn't seem to help (or hurt)

Lanson, you have any ideas for tweets that will fit in the factory location that are good for 100w RMS and get down to 3500hz-ish? I'm not afraid to spend a little money to get something really good!

[LEVLHED]

I ordered a pair of LPG 26NA tweeters, I think they'll fit. If not, I'll make 'em fit.
Should be a better match for the amp and opinions of their sound signature seem to line up with what I'm after generally. It's possible the distortion I'm hearing is just that I'm over-powering them even though I've got the amp gains turned way down. Might be part of the equation anyway...

As for the tuning, I think the main issue I'm having is how loud to have the subs when running the set up. It seems like if they are too loud the front stage falls apart, too quiet and it EQ's them funny and they sound like junk.
I'm *really* close to nailing it though. I'm just gonna leave the current "pretty close" tune until I sort my tweeters. This last tune I tried putting all the seats down and that seemed to help.

[Lanson]

Just a thought, but tune will go really badly if there's a speaker out of phase. I know that sounds obvious and there's no way it could happen, but... it could still happen.

The MS8 is not tolerant of a 180 degree phase shift on one speaker, and could give you a hard time.

I'm not sure how you are getting distortion though. When you do your MS8 calibration, are you first calibrating the head unit with the test disk? What volume level are you setting at? My head unit (same as yours) can top out at just a couple clicks below full blast and the MS8 still reports a clean signal coming in. Again, obvious here but just saying it, make sure your head unit settings are zero'd out.

Another thing, did you not connect the center, and rears in your MS8 wiring inputs? I remember we were talking about that.

[LEVLHED]

Alright, so in the end I decided to use their little fixed wedge mount thingies since they wouldn't quite fit in the factory location.

[LEVLHED]

woops, missed your reply Lanson

I did run center and rears to MS8. Re-calibrated input again after I installed the tweeters. I had been using around 3/4 volume on the head unit (the loudest it would go before the MS8 complained) but this time I tried using the minimum "good" which was a little lower. Not sure how much of a difference that made yet. I will probably mess around with the tune some more (who can resist) but for now it is a little better than before with the "old" tweeters.
I think I do not have the subs running at their full potential yet. Front sound stage is very good right now though.

[Lanson]

I've learned (as long as everything is in phase) that once you get your regular calibration done, a simple bump in the graphic EQ around the midbass and possibly on the high end depending on your preference is a good place to start, and sometimes end up.

I have yet to run into distortion anywhere in this setup, but I did change my tweeters during my install so maybe that is why. I know the stock Sony setup has way better tweeters than this standard FoMoCo stuff, you can see it as well as hear it.

What cross point did you select for the sub, and are you running an infrasonic filter? I'm at 90hz (will be changing that and messing with lower points since I got my front speakers and deadening done), 24dB/oct. with a 20hz, 12dB/oct infrasonic filter. I have noticed that the MS8 sorta prefers a high cross point on the sub, and since you can't overlap frequencies (a mistake in design IMO), but you can cheat w changing the slopes, and with bumps in EQ which can sorta make the same things happen.

In tuning with the initial calibration (the mics on your head), I've found a slightly better stage when I over-extend my normal head turns for the left-right looking points, and if I shift my head slightly toward the center I also get some improvements. would love an "expert mode" in the MS-8 but doubt we'll ever get that.

[PaulD]

The whole purpose of the MS-8 was to set and forget ....

[LEVLHED]

80hz 24db & I raised the high pass a little, I think I did 27Hz 18db. I'm going to try raising that some more, though they are supposed to be good to 25hz I think that is asking a bit much of the little guys. Maybe 30hz next.
It is really close to being able to stop tinkering now. Its just I've heard what the subs are capable of in previous tunes and I'm not there yet. If I can get them to where I've heard them while maintaining the front sound stage I'll be ready to rock (and forget)

[Lanson]

Very true on the subs. I got to thinking about it, and I wonder if maybe you are getting nodes that are destructively interfering at important bass frequencies, since you have two drivers in almost the middle of the cabin. One way to prove or disprove that would be to temporarily move the subs to the rearmost part of the cabin, and retest. If there is a destructive node occurring, it would disappear when the subs are in the far back. IF that is the case, the cure would not be very easy but at least you would know that it isn't something the MS-8 is responsible for or able to cure.

I think if I were in your shoes, I'd do a 25-28hz but cut it really hard at 24dB/oct. I think I would go to 90hz on the low pass (maybe 12dB/oct) just to see what you think, and then kick up the midbass in the EQ to get the fronts to extend out a bit.