Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
Just curious how many of you have created your own custom tuning curve either thru the use of Zazzi's tool or something else? Not just a take an existing curve (Like Harmon, Whitle, ect...) and tweak it a little but actually create it from the ground up. If so, what was your process? How did you get started? Are you happy with the results? Do you have any suggestions or experience to offer up on how you came up with your own curve? What was your overall tuning/sound goals and how did you accomplish those, what frequency range did you spend most time on?
I've been experimenting with designing a curve and my first attempt is 85% of what i am trying to accomplish... but man that next 15% seems like a eon away...
Re: Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
A lot of research has gone in to the general shape of curves based on subjective double blind studies and speaker preferences, then objectively measuring those speakers to see what curve they naturally had.
Most peoples curves are going to fall somewhere with some extra subwoofer bass and usually a slight roll off somewhere in the high frequencies. Subwoofer bass seems like it really is a thing that it is hard to have too much, as long as it is blended well with the other speakers.
As long as you stay somewhat in that, you should be good.
Re: Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
How did you create your signature sound curve Jdunk?
Re: Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justin Zazzi
How did you create your signature sound curve Jdunk?
Using parts of all of the curves in your spreadsheet that I liked.
BBC dip, Andy's base roll off for Sub to woofer, but your extending up and not just flat bass (equal loudness was my reason here), I actually keep my high frequencies flat besides the BBC dip.
I don't even know what my curve looks like at this point! I still have yet to tune my truck after finding my USB cable issue... lol. I've also took your advice and just play around with the bass, mid, and treble adjustments until I got something I liked.
5 Attachment(s)
Re: Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
Finally created some free time for myself to restart my tuning project. I wanted to get some opinions on my proposed XOver points for an Active 4 way front and Sub.
Tweeters (Focal K2 TKM) Off Axis high in the doors - HP @ 5k
Midrange (Focal K2 3") Off Axis on the corner of the dash firing into the windshield - HP @ 600 - LP @ 5k
Higher Mid-Bass (Focal k2 6.5") Off Axis in lower door panel - HP @ 230 - LP @ 600
Mid-Bass (JBL 8" Fuse) One under each front seat playing Mono - HP @ 50 - LP @ 230
Sub (12" Vented @ 33 Hz) - HP @ 25 - LP @ 80Hz
Raw REW Measurements - (No Xover except Tweeter)
Attachment 15991Attachment 15992Attachment 15993Attachment 15994Attachment 15995
I am still playing with a Target curve... I really like what Zazzi came up with the Highs, however i am looking at bringing the low end up more and starting my slope up more around the 250 Hz since this is in a Full Size SUV. One of the main goals i have (not quire sure how to accomplish it yet lol) is i want to get my Mid/highs to provide the kind of impact that makes your eyes blink from the snap of a rim hit on the snare drum.
Any feedback or course correction type suggestion are supper welcomed
Re: Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
Are the measurements made without filters except for highpass on the tweeter?
Are you thinking highpass 50hz on the JBL underseat woofers to help the sub since it peaks around 40hz?
I'm curious why you chose lowpass 230hz on the JBL underseat woofers. The frequency response listed on their website is up to 200hz and you don't seem to get much beyond ~150hz.
How do you plan to mount the JBL underseat woofers? They might be really fun with lots of tactile feel if that's what you're going for?
For the JBL underseat woofers and also the Focal in-door woofers, they might be challenging to tune with such a narrow bandwidth because on each speaker the effects of the highpass filter and the lowpass filter will overlap and become less predictable. The phase alignment will also be non-standard and you might want to use an all-pass filter to help. I see you have access to SMAART so that'll be a huge help.
I'm curious why you chose 5khz between the two dash speakers. According to the frequency response on the datasheet, the 3" seems to have breakup at 6khz which we usually like to avoid so I'd be tempted to lower it to half that ... roughly 3khz. If you follow the rule of thumb and choose a highpass for the tweeter by doubling the tweeter's Fs x2 then you get 3.2khz so that would line up nicely.
To get the eye-blinking effect, I like to have high dynamic range in all frequencies. I'm curious what other advice you get on this.
Re: Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
I appreciate the feedback and questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justin Zazzi
Are the measurements made without filters except for highpass on the tweeter?
~ Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justin Zazzi
Are you thinking highpass 50hz on the JBL underseat woofers to help the sub since it peaks around 40hz?
I'm curious why you chose lowpass 230hz on the JBL underseat woofers. The frequency response listed on their website is up to 200hz and you don't seem to get much beyond ~150hz.
How do you plan to mount the JBL underseat woofers? They might be really fun with lots of tactile feel if that's what you're going for?
For the JBL underseat woofers and also the Focal in-door woofers, they might be challenging to tune with such a narrow bandwidth because on each speaker the effects of the highpass filter and the lowpass filter will overlap and become less predictable. The phase alignment will also be non-standard and you might want to use an all-pass filter to help. I see you have access to SMAART so that'll be a huge help.
~ The point of the under seat is two objectives.... 1) to help the 6.5" in the door as they do not have great output 2) there are a lot of times i have to shut the sub down or bring the volume of it down quite a bit... I think i am going to focus on the 3 way and getting that correct and then try to integrate these down the road
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justin Zazzi
I'm curious why you chose 5khz between the two dash speakers. According to the frequency response on the datasheet, the 3" seems to have breakup at 6khz which we usually like to avoid so I'd be tempted to lower it to half that ... roughly 3khz. If you follow the rule of thumb and choose a highpass for the tweeter by doubling the tweeter's Fs x2 then you get 3.2khz so that would line up nicely.
~The 5k Hz is what keeps getting drilled into me by different dealers and Focal Tech support. It could be possible that focal pushes this XOver point more for protection than fidelity. I completely missed the 6k break up thank you. i will go back to the 3.2k
Re: Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
Damn dude, I wish my door speakers and dash tweeters measured like that without processing!
Re: Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
Those midbass drivers seem to be really good according to the measurements. Wonder why you think they don't have enough output. All i see are the typical nulls in the 100Hz to 200Hz region when placed low in the door, but this is to be expected. With almost 5 mm XMAX they are not that bad for that task. If you really think they don't have enough output i think it's more on the tuning side, i.e. not good cohesion between sub and midbass and this is something that can be changed.
2 Attachment(s)
Re: Your own Custom Target Tuning Curve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justin Zazzi
Damn dude, I wish my door speakers and dash tweeters measured like that without processing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cathul
Those midbass drivers seem to be really good according to the measurements. Wonder why you think they don't have enough output. All i see are the typical nulls in the 100Hz to 200Hz region when placed low in the door, but this is to be expected. With almost 5 mm XMAX they are not that bad for that task. If you really think they don't have enough output i think it's more on the tuning side, i.e. not good cohesion between sub and midbass and this is something that can be changed.
Thank you both for these comments.... Okay maybe i have to accept it's not an equipment issue and the challenges imposed by my use of factory locations are not deal breakers, but it seems that the real issue is between the keyboard and chair :) ....
Another reason i had chosen to try small subs under the seat is to cope with the near side Null(s) in my Driver Mid-bass... I have three big valleys that i wanted to try and resolve using an Array type of approach.
I figured my options were:
1) EQ & TA the problem away with a proper target curve
I have quickly learned that this really isnt a solution
2) Run multiple sets of 6.5 - one in the front of the door & 6.5 in the front of rear door card. The font door location is set very forward in the vehicle and the rear set are just behind the front seats... Challenge here is my rears are running passive (6.5 & 1"). I could eliminate the tweeters and heavily bandpass the 6.5's?
3) 6.5 in the factory door location & little subs under front seat
3) Use the sub to blend/fill in the 57 - 78 hz null
Near Field Nulls
57 - 78 Hz
115 - 238 hz (115 - 153 & 160 - 238)
Attachment 16004
Looks like the sub has the same battle with the near side null also...
Attachment 16006
so this is the battle i am finding myself in.... And i keep trying to remind myself this is supposed to be fun lol
Edited: Looks like all i needed to do was use better "Search Terms"
Use your Subwoofer to get better midbass