Help me pick my "Do it once...Do it right" System equipment

Hello All...this convo started on Diyma and I'm looking to expand my decision making to this site. (I love the comeraderie and collective wisdom here!)

My vehicle: 2003 Mercury Marauder

Head unit Kenwood 9906xr

Hi Res Through AptX HD wireless connection on Amp (Kann Cube)...?

I'm running a 220 Amp DB Electrical Alternator.

Ok, so i am rethinking my amplifier setup: What do you guys think about these options. Please consider these concepts as if you were doing it for a system in a daily driver:

Option One (original plan): $

Kenwood Head Unit 9906xr
Audiocontrol D-6.1200
Audio Control LC-1.1500
Audiofrog 3 way GB set in custom speaker pods.
Stereo Integrity SPL-12 subs (2) sealed


Option Two (second plan): $$

Kenwood Head Unit 9906xr
Audiocontrol LC-6.1200
Audio Control LC-1.1500
Helix DSP.3 Processor
Audiofrog 3 way GB set in custom speaker pods.
Stereo Integrity SPL-12 subs (2) sealed

Option Three: (new idea plan): $$$

Kenwood Head Unit 9906xr
Zapco Z-150.6 II 6 channel AB amp
Zapco Z-2KD II mono channel D amp
Helix DSP.3 Processor
Audiofrog 3 way GB set in custom speaker pods.
Stereo Integrity SPL-12 subs (2) sealed

Attachment 11983

Skip the audiocontrol DSP, the software is junk and it lacks A BUNCH of features. Their amps are nice, just not the dsp.

Option 3

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Originally Posted by beak81champ

Option 3

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Why is three the best pick for you beak81champ? I know there are obvious reasons for some, but I wonder if there will be a significant improvement over option 2. What do you think?

3 for me...

From the list, I think most everyone will pick option 3 because it's objectively the best/most premium component setup.

However;

What is your criteria for choosing a setup? The best sounding end result irrelevant of cost? Best balance of cost vs result? (bang for the buck). Do you have a set total budget where what is not used on components, is used on deadening/install/tuning?

Lots of unknown variables here.

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Originally Posted by Haakono

From the list, I think most everyone will pick option 3 because it's objectively the best/most premium component setup.

However;

What is your criteria for choosing a setup? The best sounding end result irrelevant of cost? Best balance of cost vs result? (bang for the buck). Do you have a set total budget where what is not used on components, is used on deadening/install/tuning?

Lots of unknown variables here.

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I guess my most influential criteria is living without that sinking feeling of regret. I only buy a system every 7-10 years when I pick up a new(er) or more necessary daily driver. In my Ford Excursion, I went with Focal Coaxials, jl audio xd amps, a jl 10w3 and a jl audio 13w6. I love Kenwood head units as well. The truck was for overall good sound with a bit of fun pushing the envelope periodically with sub bass.

On this build, I want the flexibility of playing with my dsp/settings to achieve some profiles that will accompany a few different styles of music: Jazz, R&B, Gospel, and some old school hip hop. I also love lossless audio and therefore wish the system to play accurately with tweaks for my personal listening tastes. I love bass...good clean bass, but I'm not a boom system man. Since I already own all the equipment in option one (less the AF's) I am willing to sell the Audio Control amps to make way for a better functioning system.

I am an r&b, jazz, gospel, old school hip hop fan...think Kool and the Gang and Ice Cube mixed with Tower of Power...
I'm not wanting boomy...but I want great extension and fast transients...(both in my front stage and subs)

btw: I don't think I have an adequate space for the director for my DSP.3 Helix (future buy). Where would be a good place for that controller in my car? (Same interior as a Grand Marquis, but much more fun) The change from option 1 to 3 is roughly $600-700 extra. I would hate to let that keep me from an honest feeling of accomplishment versus the feeling of "missing something". Does that make sense?

I haven't heard ANYTHING bad about option 3, but option 1 and 2 seem to have some opponents on the site. Are my assumptions correct?

Don't put the cart before the horse...

Design your system first. Your installation plan. Your goals, what you want to achieve - and your installation plan for achieving that.
THEN pick equipment that best suits THAT particular application.

And be careful gathering answers on the internet - both are good forums, but...
Ask a guy who owns a farm "what car is best?" He'll say "a truck!" and he'll be right. For him.
Ask a race driver, he'll say "a sports car!" and he'll be right. For him.
Ask a motorcycle guy... You get the idea.
Everyone has their own personal, biased, unwittingly anecdotal notion of what they think is the best equipment out there.
But what suits their goals and tonal preferences best isn't necessarily what suits mine... or yours.

So tell us this first - what's the goal and plan that you need equipment for, in this Marauder?

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Originally Posted by agm

Hello All...this convo started on Diyma and I'm looking to expand my decision making to this site. (I love the comeraderie and collective wisdom here!)

My vehicle: 2003 Mercury Marauder

Head unit Kenwood 9906xr

Hi Res Through AptX HD wireless connection on Amp (Kann Cube)...?

I'm running a 220 Amp DB Electrical Alternator.

Ok, so i am rethinking my amplifier setup: What do you guys think about these options. Please consider these concepts as if you were doing it for a system in a daily driver:

Option One (original plan): $

Kenwood Head Unit 9906xr
Audiocontrol D-6.1200
Audio Control LC-1.1500
Audiofrog 3 way GB set in custom speaker pods.
Stereo Integrity SPL-12 subs (2) sealed


Option Two (second plan): $$

Kenwood Head Unit 9906xr
Audiocontrol LC-6.1200
Audio Control LC-1.1500
Helix DSP.3 Processor
Audiofrog 3 way GB set in custom speaker pods.
Stereo Integrity SPL-12 subs (2) sealed

Option Three: (new idea plan): $$$

Kenwood Head Unit 9906xr
Zapco Z-150.6 II 6 channel AB amp
Zapco Z-2KD II mono channel D amp
Helix DSP.3 Processor
Audiofrog 3 way GB set in custom speaker pods.
Stereo Integrity SPL-12 subs (2) sealed

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Option 1 - no dsp - NO!
Option 2 - Audio Control amps + Helix DSP - Ok.
Option 3 - Zapco Amps + Helix DSP - WINNER!
But I wouldn't limit yourself to Zapco amps, there are plenty of great quality amps, JL Audio, MMATS just to name 2. I'm sure there will be more suggestions.

You could even go cheaper on the sub amp to save some money, but that's the only place I would cut the budget.

I say option 2 because you won’t notice a difference between those amps. What about installation and tuning? Arguably installation and tuning are more important.

I'll suggest option 3 with some caveats...

- If you're going to use AF GB speakers, try to fit the GB10/GB40 combo if possible. I run the GB10/GB25 set and while it covers the intended freq range and gets really loud, I can imagine that the GB40 would provide a bit more mid-range oomph due to it's surface area... and probably take less power while doing it.

- If you can fit 8" drivers in your doors, that possibly gets you more mid-bass impact up front, depending on the speaker of course. I run Audio Development NEO 800's which I'm more than happy with, but my installer prefers Morel Elates.

- I run Zapco amps except mine are the 4 channel version for the front stage, so I feel like you have the amps covered.

- As for the DSP, you can't go wrong with a Helix, but depending on your tuning abilities, you could also look into the miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 Dirac Live model, which does a great job of auto-tuning, but still allow you to tweak the results.

I'm still not clear on what this list of gear is specifically meant to achieve - specific personal goals, and all that...
...but I would bet even an IASCA judge wouldn't hear differences in the Audiocontrol vs Zapco amplification, and you aren't using the built-in processing since you are using a DSP (and I wouldn't hold Audiocontrol's processing at any disadvantage anyway, of course).

If simply picking between those two, I'd use installation considerations and price to pick between the two.

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Originally Posted by JCsAudio

I say option 2 because you won’t notice a difference between those amps. What about installation and tuning? Arguably installation and tuning are more important.

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I have a shop in Central Florida to do the work of install and tuning..after the initial install, I'm sure I'll be tweaking from now to eternity...

[QUOTE=geolemon;62448]I'm still not clear on what this list of gear is specifically meant to achieve - specific personal goals, and all that...
...but I would bet even an IASCA judge wouldn't hear differences in the Audiocontrol vs Zapco amplification, and you aren't using the built-in processing since you are using a DSP (and I wouldn't hold Audiocontrol's processing at any disadvantage anyway, of course).

If simply picking between those two, I'd use installation considerations and price to pick between the two.

Hey Geolemon,

My goal is great sound (I know...I couldn't be more basic). I am not new to sound and sound quality. I have ZERO desire for sound competition life, although I've been to many of them. I choose my goals based on what I listen to not what numbers/stats/ status I wish to achieve. I definitely want long-lasting equipment, and am willing to spend the $ to get quality and quantity of dsp shaped audio. Hope that helps...I listed my favorite types of music earlier in the post, but here...

I am an r&b, jazz, gospel, old school hip hop fan...think Kool and the Gang and Ice Cube mixed with Tower of Power...

I'm not wanting overly boomy sound (deep bass isn't the primary desired effect)...but I want great extension and fast transients...(both in my front stage and subs) thus SQL-12's in a sealed config.

For 12's I recommend FI's or Image dynamics if that helps. I know you've kind of got your mind set. At least with the FI's you can pick and choose how you want them built in the upper lines so they're tailored for your needs. I'm having one if the XV3's built for me now for my daughter since she want's more SQ than SPL, but does want it to thump, and that will come with the tuning.

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Originally Posted by agm

My goal is great sound (I know...I couldn't be more basic). I am not new to sound and sound quality. I have ZERO desire for sound competition life, although I've been to many of them.

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So that's still a pretty general goal - meaning:
Great sound to me means "great imaging" - and although that primarily means "location and aiming", no matter the equipment...
...it definitely can drive decisions like "three way up front... No speakers in the rear" or "small mids only, rear, ambient fill"
...or maybe a center channel is part of someone's imaging strategy. Or horns...

Great sound to a buddy of mine who is both a DJ and a legitimate audiophile, is to emulate a club, in his car. Which definitely means speakers front and rear, because the image is "everywhere, yet nowhere".

If your "good sound" doesn't reach to these depths, then realistically any of the above three might be perfectly fine. Maybe you don't care that rear tweeters can cause comb-filter-effect and pull imaging rearward... My own Fiancee runs her fader slightly to the rear and won't listen to a word of advice i give her. [emoji38]

My comment on IASCA judging was just to point out - ESPECIALLY if you aren't tuning to the degree where these type of things are critical to your goals - then Zapco vs Audiocontrol... even an IASCA judge wouldn't listen to those two systems and be note critical of one than the other.
Personally, I'm a fan of how compact the AC amps are, and it seems you have a better price on those than the Zapco...

So back to the goals - what would you expect the Zapco to give you that the Audiocontrol wouldn't?

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So AGM did you check any of those subs out or are you going with the others you have listed?

I looked into the ID and haven't yet checked out the FI. I'm not a huge fan of the ID's but purely from the olden days when I wanted more boom. I already have the SQL-12's so I will definitely install them and then see what I think. I have quite a bit of room to play with on the rear package shelf in the trunk, and if Im not satisfied, Im only out $600 for the both of them.

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Originally Posted by geolemon

I'm still not clear on what this list of gear is specifically meant to achieve - specific personal goals, and all that...
...but I would bet even an IASCA judge wouldn't hear differences in the Audiocontrol vs Zapco amplification, and you aren't using the built-in processing since you are using a DSP (and I wouldn't hold Audiocontrol's processing at any disadvantage anyway, of course).

If simply picking between those two, I'd use installation considerations and price to pick between the two.

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OK, after considering all of your suggestions on this thread and counting the cost and my install parameters, I've chosen to go with version two of my choices:

Kenwood Head Unit 9906xr
Audiocontrol LC-6.1200
Audio Control LC-1.1500
Helix DSP.3 Processor
Audiofrog 3 way GB set in custom speaker pods.
Stereo Integrity SPL-12 subs (2) sealed

Since I already owned both of the Audiocontrol amps in option one, I needed to sell the dsp amp to get the non-dsp unit. I actually made money and sold it in
ONE day! So then I ordered the 6 channel non dsp amp. I agree with geolemon that there really would be little difference between the amps...not worth the size and financial impact.

Now I am working on buying the Helix dsp.3. My final pickup will be the audiofrog components. Anyone have a deal on Helix?

Ordered the Helix DSP.3 from a fellow member. I was wondering, what setup are you all using when it comes to the Helix DSP? I am probably going to use the USB unit so I can plug in a digital player. I wsa thinking since the Bluetooth module only works with AptX and not AptXHD it wouldn't be wise to invest in that. I was thinking I'd get the wifi module and the usb module. I don't know for sure if I have room for the director. Will the director work with the USB and wifi connected?

Thanks!

Another question for you my friends:

Do you know of any good custom installers proficient with Helix DSP processing in Florida? I'll need the benefit of custom door panels and a custom sub box.

Thanks!

If you're in the Orlando area I believe there's 5star Car Stereo, check them out on Youtube. Not sure if he does what you want but he's pretty darn smart.