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From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Hey all. So the Camry finally let me down. I tore into that car so hard. Need speaker vents? Cut a hole? Want to try something crazy? Rip out half the interior? Acoustic foam on all surfaces? Sure why the hell not. It was my first real car. I loved it to death, but its time to move on. I always told everyone that i'd drive it till it left me on the side of the road and it did just that. Multiple times. So I got some funds together and got a new car. Here's my new baby. 6 speed manual 2011 Scion TC.
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Its a reconstructed/totaled title so i got it for a good deal. Unfortunately, that means its got its hiccups. So far the engine and body have been reliable but the work that was done elsewhere is shady as fuck. It was some random guy on the shitty side of town who did the work. Meh. First off. I had to get rid of those plastidip wheels and OH BOY OH BOY WAS THAT A FUCKINGGGGGGG ADVENTURE.
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Far far better imo.
Next up was a look through the car to see what other shady shit was done. Found this. That's the window cleaner sprayer on the carbon fiber hood. Pretty sure its gorilla glue all over it. So ill need to fix that. The back seat is missing a large link that connects it and there are random ass bolts all over the place. The seat still looks good and functions well. I've pulled a few panels and there are missing clips as well. Other than those things. Everything seems alright. Just some dumb bs to fix but nothing drastic.
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The doors on this car is absolutely massive..and completely built for a SQ build. Just look at this, its like a third of the car!
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I may end up building some fully custom, ground up door panels for it at some point but for now. I'll roll with what i got.
Just a quick look through the car and the room i have available for stereo stuff. First pic(ignore circle) is of Gen1 version of this cars dash and what it looks like with all the useless crap tore out. From some reading, it looks like the 2nd gen(mine) is the sameish platform but a little bit wider. 2nd pic is my cars dash now. I'd be willing to bet that if i dug into the dash. i could find more than a enough room for a shallow mount subwoofer enclosure. 2nd picture is my current dash.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
After I looked over the Scion. It was time to tear into the Camry and pull everything out. So here's a final farewell to that shitshow.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
The collection. Minus all the massive power wire. Attachment 11072
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
I took off the back quarter panel and look at all this room! ...and horrible shit CLD that i get to tear off.
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I didn't get any pics of it but brake cleaner took all that brown stuff right off. Note, brake cleaner immediately melts the white silicone beads that manufacturers use in their cars.
I started to look for where i can put subwoofers as they are the biggest component in a system and generally you need to plan your system around their location. I have my two Fi ib3 15'' sitting around now. I looked around the vehicle on where i could possible use them. The back trunk area is completely flat. There isn't a spare tire "well" to speak of. That kind of sucks because tire wells make really easy to hide fiberglass enclosures for subs. I looked at cutting a hole where the spare tire is now and making an IB configuration but i ran into a bit of a problem...the exhaust pipe and muffler go down the vehicle and for WHATEVER reason, shoot directly underneath the hatch trunk. That metal piece you see in the middle. Thats the heatshield directly under the spare tire. So i couldn't vent a IB sub without most likely melting the damn cone. Fuck.
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So what are my options? My thought is this. I could very easily built fiberglass enclosures into those quarter panels and put two shallow mount subs into them. Most likely a Sundown Sd3 in each panel. I might possibly do 1 in the back left. 1 in the back right, and 1 in the dash...but thats a lot of custom work and i am not really ready to cut into this car that much yet. I am going to take my time and make sure this car turns out as beautiful and clean as possible. Amp wise. I have my Wolfram 3k which is a monster and i don't have an alternator in this car to support that, plus two possibly 3 separate subs in different locations is going to kinda screw me on T/a situation. I have the dsp channels, just not the amp channels.
Thats all for now. I'll update as i get more into it.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
I've had great success building door enclosures for my mid-bass in my last two vehicles. THe boxes end up a smaller than ideal so I add aperiodic vents to them. They sound so much better than any door based mid woofer I've ever installed that its now my go to solution, and when I shop cars I make sure the door card/door design will support this. So seeing those big beautiful doors that's what I would do !
If you have the room it might be pretty easy to re-route the exhaus - of course that's easyfor me to say having all the equipment and experience to do so but really a stock system any old muffler shop could move it for you .... if there's room.
You can't beat the true IB in the floor ! (well actually IB into a large sedan trunk is practically better just because you aren't thumping the whole outside of the car).
Ah, I envy you , us DIY'ers can only buy so many cars in our life, and we only get to build a whole new system once in a while. So don't screw it up by compromising LOL.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
I got the horns in today. Having put them in the Camry before, i understood the process of mounting them a lot easier. Just stick your head under the dash. Find factory mount points, see where you want the horn to sit and start fabricating and bending steel flat bar till its where you want it. Lots of vice/hammer and back n forth here.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...45-jpg.270064/
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I had to dremel down this piece so the steel flat bar would sit flat on the factory mounting location.
Thank god for this tool. I had to cut away some of the kick panel plastic so that the horn would fit which left a nice hole for mounting. Put in a threaded rivet and wala, mounting location.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...06-jpg.270067/
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Ill make some beauty panel tomorrow to hide it all. Will most likely wrap it in suede or something. Probably going to inset some magnets and make a quick and easy on/off cover.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Looking good man. :)
See the sax is still going strong? Proof I can do a decent repair. :thumbup:
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bnae38
Looking good man. :)
See the sax is still going strong? Proof I can do a decent repair. :thumbup:
haha yea. That thing will never die. i posted some pics of the old set up on FB groups and had like 4 ppl try and buy that amp off me. That 150.4 is a bullet proof.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
after running horns for years, i suggest using nylon lock nuts on the back side. using a jam nut doesn't work so hot.
i was able to texture-match mine to the dash with bedliner paint, then coat them in primer to match the color/luster of the dash (in my GTI anyway).
could hit them w/ some body filler and clean up the bodies a bit too. :)
http://agitated.net/gallery/d/11806-2/DSC_5652.JPG
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nadams5755
after running horns for years, i suggest using nylon lock nuts on the back side. using a jam nut doesn't work so hot.
i was able to texture-match mine to the dash with bedliner paint, then coat them in primer to match the color/luster of the dash (in my GTI anyway).
could hit them w/ some body filler and clean up the bodies a bit too. :)
http://agitated.net/gallery/d/11806-2/DSC_5652.JPG
Ill keep that in mind.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
I started off with this design but decided i wanted the exits of the horn to be more free on all 3 sides. So i switched to two pieces of wood and just let the metal grill be the binding part. Its a little wobbly but does the job. I inset the mounting bolts on the horn to be flush and then drilled 1/4in into the horn body and glued magnets into it/ wood piece. So it just snaps on and off with magnets, easy peasy.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...19-jpg.270671/https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...65-jpg.270672/https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...22-jpg.270673/
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As for the notch on the kick panels. I'll take off the cloth and do a layer or two fiberglass cloth so it covers the cut out part of the kick panel. I am just not going to bust out the FG material and until i have other FG projects to do at the same time.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
So whoever had this car before me... Well...They tried. This is what i started with. I have no idea what kind of CLD this is and from all the shoddy work around the car that i've found so far. I don't trust it to be a quality product. You can see some kind of stick on foam they put on the inner door metal for reasons unknown. (Picture 2)
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...28-jpg.270957/
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All Cleaned up. I left the butyl vapor barrier stuff because well frankly..It was hard as shit to get off and ill be putting CLD ontop of it anyway so meh. Leave it. VVVVhttps://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...33-jpg.270959/
VVVV I really should have put CLD on the top layer and then started cleaning up the wiring but oh well. Lesson learned. Ill do it that way on the other door. I got CLD down on the back of the door.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...02-jpg.270960/
I cleaned up some of the wiring. Cut out the Midbass/midrange/Tweeter wiring, which made the wiring harness like 50% smaller and alot easier to manage. All the wiring is getting covered/is covered in Tesa cloth tape to prevent vibrations. Every clip is getting a Tesa tape layer in front of and behind the mounting hole so that the clips don't vibrate. Some clips actually mount by putting pressure on the back of the metal hole its mounted on. Some of the clips were designed in such a way that i couldn't really prevent vibration so i just cut the damn thing off and drilled a secondary hole next to the main clip hole and ran a zip tie. Works really well.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...57-jpg.270961/
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Not even close to being done but im tired for tonight.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
That “stick on foam” in the second pic is duct insulation you get at Home Depot. A lot of uneducated people claim that stuff works as well as “Dynamat” for a fraction of the price. You can get a 1’x15’ roll for $15.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Got some more work done on the doors today. Traced out both large door holes with painters thin plastic and transferred to 1/16th ABS sheets. I screwed one corner down and used a heat fun to get a mold. The final product was a lot more smooth and also didnt have the damn door mechanism going through it....Gf was distracting. The interior of the door is also full of Rockwool. i just used gorilla tape in hopes that itll stay on. Chances are it wont but ill check in a few weeks and see whats up. If it doesnt work. Ill bust out the magnets and chicken wire.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...24-jpg.270996/
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
I did a full layer of MLV but later found that even with careful measuring. Most of it won't fit with the door. There's quite a few spots where the tolerances are too tight. So i ended up wasting a lot of mlv and only using maybe 1/4 of whats in that picture. Its mainly covering up one of the ABS sheets now. Now that i've done a few cars with MLV. I think the best way to do a door isn't in one big sheet but rather in 1 or 1.5ft sections and just tape them together with a good tape with no seam. The white stuff is a thinsulate 1.5in and .5in (600l and 200l)
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jscoyne2
I can see whats coming now :shrug::shrug:
On a better note, Like the fabrication work. :thumbup:
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Full tear down. Expanding foam in large nooks and crannies. Mlv with Thinsulate because of Justin Zazzis report on the best decoupler. Then a shitload of Rockwool.
Whats not pictures. Full covered of every single wire and connector with Tesa cloth tape, as well as all the mounting holes for clips and mounting holes for where panels fit into eachother. Not a rattle or plastic rubbing will be had.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...08-jpg.271254/
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
There's quite a lot of exhaust noise as the exhaust covers most of the back of the car. So i took out the spare(because i have AAA) and all the foam that surrounded the spare. In its place i built basically an acoustic trap. Its .5 mdf with mlv lining it and then Rockwool inside it. Does a pretty good job of cutting down on noise from behind.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...71-jpg.271450/
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
This install is looking retro-awesome already (being a guy from the 90's).
Waveguides and at least some discussion of large-cone IB subs, I feel like you are just one giant turbocharger short of Richard Clark's famously undefeated Grand National SQ champion car! :lol:
Since you can't go IB or Aperiodic (his was technically AP), and since you already own some pretty awesome monster cone subs, I feel like I might have a great suggestion here. Or maybe two:
Option A) Clamshell isobaric.
Kicker's Solobaric subs really were the industry game-changers. Before that, boxes needed to be "Oh my god, how big?" to perform well. After the Solobaric high-mass, low compliance, high-motor-strength recipe hit, everyone started making "small box subs". Today it's hard to find anything but that.
I say that, because when I started, just about every other install I did was isobaric, purely to get the box size down. That need really went away after "small box subs", so isobaric installs all but disappeared.
Bear in mind it's not just space savings - there's SQ benefits here as well, at least if you clamshell them face-to-face (the easiest way). Because in that orientation, you always have one sub moving forward, and one sub moving backwards, you completely iron out any non-linearities of the suspension (half-roll surround moves differently "in" vs "out", cup spider can also show differences), essentially creating a perfect suspension.
And the thought of two 15's in a box in a Scion might be laughable - I'm guessing 6 cubic feet (3 each), even sealed? (I did no modeling! Pure guess)
Well, if you do a clamshell isobaric box, that turns into 1.5 cu.ft and you'll get exactly the same response curve. It's half the enclosure size of one sub - or 1/4 the enclosure size that the two subs would need.
The ONLY downside that I can think of is that you only get the SPL of a single cone, because you've essentially coupled both motors and suspensions to one cone, so you have one super-controlled single cone stimulating the air...
But is that really a downside? You've got two 15's - so it'll be as loud as a single 15 in a Scion hatch, and that's still potentially huge output - and it'll sound better than these subs even can sound on their own.
The old argument against isobaric used to also be "you have to buy two subs", "you have to power two subs"...
...but in this case, you already own two subs, and their power. This is the "free" option.
Option B) Passive Radiator
Again, I'm thinking of your available space - in this case, this would be the "more SPL/lower SQ" option, but still should be pretty good for SQ if you can dial in the PR's.
Run a single 15" sub, but this time with passive radiators to make the box tiny.
Specifically, I'm thinking of this: https://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-So.../dp/B06WWDYV7T
I don't own that specifically, but I do own those passive radiators. They are impressive in their excursion capability, easy to add/remove mass for tuning via a bolt, and this arrangement is super-clever. It ends up looking like a slot vent, hiding the PRs inside the box so you don't need so much surface area.
In this case you would sell one of your subs... you'd have to buy this, and you'll have to do a little modeling (I have the spec sheet for the PR's, I'd be glad to share), but passive radiator boxes can also be tiny - I'm thinking also in the 1.5 cu.ft. realm (again, I haven't done any modeling, just educated guessing). They don't make a 15" PR, but the dual-12 PR should be enough surface area to allow enough PR excursion to match the displacement of a huge 15.
It's the "higher SQ" version of a vented box, if you will, since there's no port noise.
Option C) Both
Like always, there's always options to go crazy, to push more purely into the SQL realm (isobaric sealed box), to push more into the SPL realm (isobaric vented box), or somewhere in between (passive radiator), even a super tiny option (isobaric passive radiator combo).
Don't be afraid to model isobaric - most software allows you to do it. WinISD does, including "isobaric" and "PR" at the same time.
If you use something that doesn't - just edit/save a second copy of your subwoofer driver file with the VAS cut in half. Now you are modeling an isobaric pair, rather than the single version of that subwoofer.
Pretty easy.
Can't wait to see how this turns out... wish I could hear it, I've never so much as seen waveguides before, though I own some horns for home use. Was always curious how they compare.
If you are anywhere near Buffalo NY, I'd be glad to help.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jscoyne2
I have my two Fi ib3 15'' sitting around now. I looked around the vehicle on where i could possible use them...
Sorry, this was really what I was responding to here - I missed the detail that they were specifically IB subs. That doesn't entirely change my post above...
But it's important to note - IB subs usually have a higher Qts and a larger Vas, so that means it's more of a big-box sealed-compatible sub, if you weren't using it for IB.
(and again - I haven't looked up any specs - that's just how IB subs are, so you should confirm that what I'm saying is true)
So my amendment here is - the vented, and even the PR options are probably out the window. Check the EBP but I bet it's going to be under 50, and I can tell you don't want it sounding sloppy.
However, the isobaric sealed option might absolutely be perfect - those subs would shine in that, keep box size down... and still get loud, and still have full efficiency (same power as you were running).
Model it up and you'll see. Their "ideal" sealed might be a little bigger than I was originally thinking, but isobaric does a great job shrinking things down, of course.
EDIT: I did check WinISD, and unfortunately Fi subs aren't listed there. Do you have the Qts, Fs, and Vas by chance?
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
geolemon
Sorry, this was really what I was responding to here - I missed the detail that they were specifically IB subs. That doesn't entirely change my post above...
But it's important to note - IB subs usually have a higher Qts and a larger Vas, so that means it's more of a big-box sealed-compatible sub, if you weren't using it for IB.
(and again - I haven't looked up any specs - that's just how IB subs are, so you should confirm that what I'm saying is true)
So my amendment here is - the vented, and even the PR options are probably out the window. Check the EBP but I bet it's going to be under 50, and I can tell you don't want it sounding sloppy.
However, the isobaric sealed option might absolutely be perfect - those subs would shine in that, keep box size down... and still get loud, and still have full efficiency (same power as you were running).
Model it up and you'll see. Their "ideal" sealed might be a little bigger than I was originally thinking, but isobaric does a great job shrinking things down, of course.
EDIT: I did check WinISD, and unfortunately Fi subs aren't listed there. Do you have the Qts, Fs, and Vas by chance?
T/s specs listed on site. Unfortunately. Im on the other side of the states from you :p Oregon based. I think two sundown sd3 shallow mounts in fiberglass enclosures in the quarter panels should be enough output. If not. Ill just go with a traditional box and something like an SSA Icon or xcon.
https://ficaraudio.com/product/ib3-series-ib315-v2/
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Two little subs up front could be pretty cool - I definitely spotted that you have a stick, so make sure to take care of the possibility of a foot slipping off a clutch pedal (says this guy who used to autocross his very much manual-transmission '95 supercharged Civic).
Here's a plot if you did want to augment them with the 15 - or since you have the amp and subs already, could include the amp with an XT-60 connector for a removable sub box (basically my plan):
Attachment 11991
Basically, the red line is 2 cu.ft. for the isobaric pair, the blue is 3 cu.ft., the green is 4 cu.ft. which is already starting to get large, and only gives a Qtc of 0.9.
That's really not bad though - honestly I'd model this up with all the specs (I only used the basic three), check out how excursion varies by power on this - you are going to DSP them anyway.
Might be a little extra something for the hatch when you aren't using it for cargo, unless you are tossing or selling the 15's.
I'm sure the subs aren't light, but 2 cu.ft. would be pretty reasonable for a removable enclosure... 4 starts to get pretty big and awkward, for that kind of thing, IMO anyway.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
It's funny you Mention Richard Clark's car. I got the chance at a show back in 90-91 somewhere around there to sit in it and he gave me a demo and it was something else I can say. I didn't know how good a car could sound. It was uncanningly clear and I felt like the sound surrounded me like a warm blanket and I had the super satiated feeling of joy in an inexplicable way. I have no idea what he had in it, I just remember the steering wheel controls he made for it since that wasn't a thing back then. I almost forgot about that.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
How awesomely lucky. I not only haven't heard Richard Clark's car, but there's no HCLD's anywhere around me.
Closest I get is regular horn drivers I bought from Parts Express.
...and I mean... they are good... but that is NOT close to "undefeated world class IASCA champion" legend. :lol:
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
speaker and dsp technology's come a long way in the 35 years since richard clark's car. some of the sound basics still hold true. i've had horn cars for the better part of the last 25 years. horns mean high-efficiency drivers for matching dynamics. high-efficiency drivers mean larger drivers for a given frequency range. vehicles have largely remained the same size, finding space for larger drivers in the kicks or doors can be a challenge. also fighting beaming angles for the larger drivers.
i think mikey's model of using 8-10s in the doors w/ 5s in the kicks, combined with horns, seems to be good enough. however there's still some high frequency horn roll-off like wideband drivers which may or may not be solved.
over the last 5 years, i've moved to 3-way mb/mid/tw and had remarkable increases in sound quality.
i've been tempted to go back to horns with what i've learned over the last 5 years, but that's a lot of work/money :)
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
i should also add that horns themselves weren't really the problem (except for the roll-off). the challenges for me were maintaining good stage and midbass. the mikey approach seems most ideal while trying to work with horns.
the value proposition for a mikey approach seems really low for me given what i know now and what i've been able to achieve with a traditional 3-way setup.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Definitely not comparing my efforts to Richard Clark. But I ran Eric Steven's large format horns in my Ram truck with his normal not more expensive ultra drivers. Had either some Beyma's or one of those pro-audio mid bass 8" in the doors and a single 12" in a console box, being driven from a P99rs head unit.
So, nice setup for the time, but not a full fledged helix nor did I have as much tuning experience. Horns were crossed around 800, and mid bass/sub was around 100 Hz. I can't hear above 10k so the fact that the horns rolled off at 12k didn't bother me.
It sounded clear and staged pretty well. Not as well as tweets/mids on the pillar, or even dash mids and pillar tweets, but pretty well. Amazingly well if you looked down and saw the horn bodies under the dash.
Again it sounded clear, and to this day was still the loudest without distortion system I've built. But I don't like to listen to super loud music, trying to save what's left of my hearing. That being said, maybe it was the tune, maybe it was my amps (though I'm not a big believer in large sonic differences between amps) but it never sounded as nice as the systems I"ve built with cones since then. Again my experience improves with every setup, but I lived with that system for a long time. And during quiet listening session it just never had that break a smile out on my face magic realism experience. I tended to blame the pro-audio drivers running up to 800Hz as I never felt like they were that musical, but that's also how I felt about the horns too. The drivers were pretty high in the door though.
]
Anyway, point being, the horns were cool and had advantages but I would only recommend them to a friend if they wanted a very loud, clear, SQL type system. My current cone vehicles I go out 2-3 times a week and listen to music and sometimes have a hard time getting out of the car, with the right source they can just transport me, and my particular horn system never did that for me.
I mean I've seen some of the highest end home audio in the work with horns, I understand the advantages, but if I were to run them again I'd use them as low crossed tweeters and throw some mids in the equation, but then, I wouldn't do that because I"d just run dome tweeters :)
FWIW.Attachment 12199
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Geo, what is an HCLD? Yeah his car was an experience, it was a surrounding of sound, it was being in the center of a symphony and every instrument was playing all around you everywhere. Didn't matter what direction you turned to look to find a speaker, they were not there, I feel like they were everywhere. I was immersed in an experience that I was not prepared for. I wonder what happened to that car if it's in a museum or something.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
HLCD is just the car audio horns we're talking about.
Horn-Loaded Compression Drivers.
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
I went with horns just to try something new. I had 10" midbass drivers, 6.5 midrange, 1in tweeter and 2 15'' IB subs. It was truly an SQL system. It banged and sounded gooooood. When i went to horns in the previous car. I had an issue where my right side horn had zero stage. Hard right was slammed in the middle of the glove compartment. There isn't much i could do. I put a towel in a few different places with no changes and its not like you can really aim a horn. You just put that shit in flush with your dash and thats that. I simply could not solve the hard right issue. Plus i would say that when the horns played alone. They were pretty low stages. Like HVAC controls height. When i turned the 8's on the floor on though. The stage rose back to the windshield. Some people said they heard the lower stage with everything on. I never could.
Plus it was reallly fun when i go to SQ comps and the judges are like..where are your speakers. I don't see anything. :3 That can make a HUGE difference in how they grade your stage width.
Differences of cones vs horns though.
Cone Pros:
Larger dedicated midbass,
far less IMD in lower midrange,
more install location/sealed box options. Most high efficiency drivers ive seen are designed for IB.
More fun to see them flex and just go hard.
I would say easier to install in competition level with flare. Acrylic baffles/grills. Leds, ect.
Cone Cons:
Far harder to plan for width/height dispersion. What i mean by that is having a vertical orientation gives better wide dispersion, and having side by side drivers gives better vertical dispersion. Finding room in a car for 2 speakers in either orientation can be challenging.
Possibly price. I subscribe to that notion that you should really never pay more than $200 per driver. Ever. barring Possibly the Audiofrog midrange line. They do something special for their size. All their other stuff is fantastic but just damn greedy imo.
More drivers.
More amps for drivers. Raises the price for entry quite a bit
Horn Pros:
High sensitivity. Gets loud on low power.
Hard to say anything about Dynamics that everyone brags about. It just feels like there is more life to the music with horns. It really got my foot tapping.
Basically just need a 4 channel to get really loud.
Install is a breeze. Don't need fancy tools to get things done. Just cut a baffle. Mount it to the door. Make some mounting brackets by measuring and bending. Mount to interior pieces. Done. No enclosures. No fiberglass. Notta.
Lends itself heavily to stealth installs. Making a grill for horns is easy and makes them basically disappear. Cone drivers are in doors.
Having a 70% of the FR coming from 1 speaker(per side) helps in many many ways. IMO, keeps instruments precise. Keeps almost all male/female vocals coming from one driver.
Horn Cons:
You can't aim shit. Once they are in. What you get frequency response is what you get.
Tend to have a pretty low roll off. My last car rolled off hard at like 6-8k. If they do it in this car too. I'll add a tweeter up top.
Eric Stevens is a huge help but i've had some issues. HLCD came with no voice coil. Had to contact him. HLCD (that he designed) straight up didn't fit the horns (that he designed). Had to heavily modify the damn thing to fit. I ordered 1 driver from him. He sent me two. I contacted him and he was just like..Just buy another. Which seems like..um..no. He had no problem talking to me on the phone and getting things sorted out within 12 hours of each time i contacted him. So im not saying hes a bad guy by any means. Just seems like he doesn't pay attention? Maybe he was having a hard time in life at the time. Idk.
Possible low stage if your not up to tuning them well.
Price for the Ultra mini Neos is pretty high imo.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
i used to have my ears drawn to the right horn/tweeter as well, fixed it with tuning.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nadams5755
i used to have my ears drawn to the right horn/tweeter as well, fixed it with tuning.
Not talking about stage pull. Talking about the right stage not being farther than the glove compartment.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
oh, i used the mini horns, cut back the kick plastic, and shoved the motor as close to the kick panel metal as i could. left width was always inside the pillar but right side was at the pillar.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jscoyne2
Not talking about stage pull. Talking about the right stage not being farther than the glove compartment.
I hear that's sort of "the thing" with horns - it's really impossible to get stage width past your A pillars. With your driver side seating position, it makes some sense that the left boundary could be your window, but your right boundary would be inside that...
I read that this year, too... Wish I could remember where and I'd link it.
I again haven't played with or heard horns, but I even wonder if it's a function of the horn lens shape?
Thinking about the sound direct path to your ear - basically, from the drivers seat, the driver's side HLCD has a straight line...
But the passenger side "direct path" would be bent by the curved wall of the horn, following that...
...it's just a theory, and clearly that curve is created out of acoustic need, but I wonder if it unintentionally also impacts stage width?
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Left early reflections are going to largely reflect off the door panel, not the driver’s side glass. Glass reflections are where you get a lot of the width cues.
same behavior on the right side.
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Well. My boss tried to kill us by throwing us into a wall at 120 mph in his 400hp Mini Cooper. Luckily, we weren't hurt. In other news. Got some more work done on the fiberglass enclosure. It looks like its going to be just under 2 cuft...which is quite a bit bigger than what i need for my 12" driver. However, With the thickness of the enclosure, Plus the Thinsulate im going to load into it and the thickness of the future front wall of the enclosure. Its going to be one giant acoustic blocker for wheel well noise. So that's really nice. Ill do some Winisd specs and see what all .75 cuft does to excursion and QTC. I may end up cutting the left side down by a few inches. Will make wrapping it around the back seat easier and would put me in the right CUFT area i need.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...76009576a9fe3c
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...76009576a9fe3chttps://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...76009576a9fe3c
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Re: From Camry to Scion. Here we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jscoyne2
Well. My boss tried to kill us by throwing us into a wall at 120 mph in his 400hp Mini Cooper. Luckily, we weren't hurt. In other news. Got some more work done on the fiberglass enclosure. It looks like its going to be just under 2 cuft...which is quite a bit bigger than what i need for my 12" driver. However, With the thickness of the enclosure, Plus the Thinsulate im going to load into it and the thickness of the future front wall of the enclosure. Its going to be one giant acoustic blocker for wheel well noise. So that's really nice. Ill do some Winisd specs and see what all .75 cuft does to excursion and QTC. I may end up cutting the left side down by a few inches. Will make wrapping it around the back seat easier and would put me in the right CUFT area i need.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/attac...76009576a9fe3c
Yikes, hope everyone is ok...
Little off topic but do you know how your boss is obtaining 400HP with an r53 mini? Know anything about the build? Does it have a motor swap? Just curious, I'd love to pick his brain if it actually is outputting that... I own/operate a small Mini tuning/engine building business and 400HP has been nearly impossible... I got an r53 motor to 375hp once but it was nearly a $35K motor build with nothing left factory, I completely ditched the supercharger and went full e85 on a meth'd turbo... ended up not lasting very long. I have another build upcoming so if he is parting anything from that unfortunate situation I might be interested...