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First 17 pages can be viewed on Deema:
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...-epicness.html
So I finished my back deck this morning. I upholstered the brake light replacement and installed some t-nuts so I could mount the panel to the deck with machine screws. It came out very well! Looks like it belongs there and it sandwiched the rear deck panel and the CCF/MLV barrier together tight.
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Up next:
Reorganize the wiring under the amp rack and maybe work on some speaker grills for the dash pods.
I'll just continue watching over here :).
Ok, got all my wire strapped up! It's not as organized as I'd like it too be but I still need to replace the sub signal wires, shorten one really long RCA, and gauge up the ground wire.
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I also got tired of needing a wrench every time I wished to remove the false bottom, so I picked up some wing nuts.
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Yes! Essque nuts FTW!
Tomorrow I plan on doing some critical listening and maybe even doing some RTA and tackling the eq for the first time.
My center keeps wanting to pull slightly to the right of the rear view and t/a did a ton for my imaging but I'd like to really focus everything. Right now I'm mostly just identifying a strong left, right, and center.
It might be pretty easy because MiniDSP has incorporated REW into most of their plug-ins. So I may go that route.
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/auto-eq-with-rew
I'm also finding that my left stage doesn't go past the driver a-pillar an the right sometimes comes from the passenger window so if I can get the left to at least come close to that I'll be much happier. I understand these might be install limitations but I'm hoping there might be some eq tricks that will help. I may end up needing some advice on this part.
How do you like the miniDSP? I'm running the Moscini 6to8 but I'm always keeping my options open.
Not to belay the obvious, but take the balance one click to the left and call it a day for a while.
If that moves the meat over then use a shallower slope on the door speaker to compensate for the off-axis response.
You are not in a symmetrical environment, no need for symmetrical crossovers. Make sure your absolute phase/polarity remains somewhat constant.
And if you have to go for big over a kliller center.. go for big, you have to drive it, have fun. Make sure your absolute phase/polarity remains somewhat constant.
I'm really enjoying it! I need to get a line driver because the output voltage is kinda low. But other than that, in happy! With the DC isolator that Mini sells, it is silent. And the user interface is so easy to use! Tuning is actually fun! I have all my DSP and RTA controls right there next to me on my laptop and everything in the MiniDSP plug-in software is self explanatory. Not to mention it is a very powerful processor! It has legs (read slopes) that go all the way up! And with 18 channels of parametric eq, per left and right I have enough eq for 3 cars. Also while setting crossovers and doing t/a I can mute all or any channels I want with the click of a button. Same goes for phase, reverse phase for each channel is just a miuse click, there is no switching wires with this little bugger!
Well I did click it over 3 notches to the left this morning. The center focal a still pull right of the center a bit. If I fudge the balance much more then the left channel becomes noticeably louder than the right. I believe I'm running the door speakers up to 500 with a 12db slope. When I did that my stage got a lot wider. But the more listening time I get, the more I realize it's not that wide and my stage is from about 11:00-2:00
Let's work on some gain structure. 2V will do it if you do it right.
I wanted to try them but I run at +4dB in the shop... Did a behringer DCX2496, then swapped it out for a Shure P4800. Both being cheaper than the MiniDSP and the shit to homebrew a balanced +4 output.
And the Shure is 4 in, 8 out.
Well I'm probably not getting 2v with all my eq bands set level on the mini and on the HU. When I first hooked everything up I maxed the gains on the midbass channels and heard no signs of distortion and that was with the Pio HU on 60 of 62. I don't wanna have to crank the HU up that high every time a quiet MP3 plays or when I want to wang out.
Full bore is full bore, get used to a linear volume control, 12dB of overlap over the course of the gain stages will make it right.
You do the math.
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but sounds like you're suggested a broader overlap of frequencies played by multiple channels will give a net gain in volume?
Why not just overlap crossover points and play all my speakers in a whatever bandwidths they are capable and let the eq clean up the mess?
nah, he means turn the gain up :p
Well hell, they are set @ 3/4! Full gains makes me feel like I'm running out of head room.
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Do you have access to an O-scope so you can test the amp at full-tilt?
Funny pic!
I do and I will!
What's with the new avatar?
The gain does not do anything other than determine WHEN the amp makes full power.... If you can do it without sacrificing your noise floor then turn them up.
Working on some tuning, REW has a pretty steep learning curve! :(
I guess I'll just use the measurements to check for any phase issues and then follow the instructions to have REW calculate all my MiniDSP eq settings for me.
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I need to get Erin over here. He's a Room EQ Wizard wizard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkOd72US0Kg
Good stuff Fric!
Ok, lemme see if I can explain this.
First I did sweeps with the subs and the left midbass, then the right midbass, then the midbasses together. Each time I inverted phase on whichever speaker I was testing. I chose to set my speaker polarity based on the responses that had the most output/smoothest curve. I ended up flipping polarity on the driver midbass only.
Then I followed the instructions on this page:
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/auto-eq-with-rew
And applied an eq setting to the driver side
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And an eq curve to the passenger side
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Then I listened to some Muzak!
It was a whole new system! The stage widened up and everything was so much more detailed. Everything above the dash became rich and vibrant. I'm not sure how to describe it. It was like the music came from the front but wrapped around my head. I can't listen to it with out my ears perking up, it's so much more engaging.
I'm not saying that this is it. I'm sure it could be much better. For instance I noticed an imaginary diagonal could be drawn from the bottom of my steering wheel to the right of my rear view mirror. And on this line midbass comes from the left and makes a transient to upper range to the right. This was only apparent on some songs and I'm sure boils down to level matching, no?
I honestly feel like I have taken this as far as I can without knowing what else to listen for. I wish I had some essque friends nearby. I now need to audition some other cars and have some gurus sit in mine.
I'm also a bit disappointed that I resorted to the auto eq. I like to do things from the ground up and understanding the fundamentals. But I can see that the fundamentals here run deep and I have a ton of research to do. But for now I'm really happy!
I do still feel that my midbass is weaker than it should be. Don't get me wrong the L8s rattle the doors and shake the mirror but they are lacking a full and rich impact, at times I feel like I'm hearing more speaker than I am sound (and I don't mean that they locate easily). I wanna feel them in my chest. I want kick drums and snare solos to engage me. I want more realistic bass guitar. I think I have a lot of resonances in my door panels that need to be addressed first off. And my MiniDSP 2x4 is just handling the midbass and widebanders. My subs are run straight from the head unit to the amp and I think are in dire need of some t/a and bass processing. I may pick up a 2nd Mini unit. What do you guys think?
What crossover points are you running?
I know this don't sound right for 8s, but try crossing them suckers a little higher on a shallower slope. Let the pair of 15s handle some of that lower midbass. It might surprise you...I currently have the Aura 8s in my doors HPd at 100Hz/6dB, I love it.
6dB/octave. No TA on your sub channels? For some reason I was thinking you ran a Pioneer 80. Worried about TA between the two subs? or between your subs and midbass?
Ok, so I made a few changes.
I crossed my subs and midbass @ 100hz with 12db slopes on both. It did tighten everything up. It sounds a lot cleaner. But I lost a lot of impact and if I compensate with my subs it draws most of the bass to the rear.
I also bumped my driver side midbass up to 600hz and reduced the slope to a 6db slope, along with setting the driver side midrange hpf up to 700hz. This was an attempt to open the stage up a bit on the left side. It worked well! I don't feel like I'm listening to everything from the front and right anymore.
For some reason when I run the auto eq with REW it wants to suck most of the bottom end out of the response. After re-micing the response and resetting the eq curves I find my bottom end very anemic. There isn't much point in spending the hours of work I put in to run 8" midbasses if I just end up cranking the subs up anyways. Maybe it's the music? Maybe I've been fattening up the bottom end my whole life and now that I have close to a properly set up eq, I'm surprised to find how little boost is actually applied down there? I don't know...
I'm gonna save all the settings and start from scratch in the morning. I'm not confident I had my t/a dialed in 100% anyways. I'd also like to try and apply the 6 channel auto eq to each channel individually and then eq left and right, that way I can boost the midbass channels a bit with effecting the overall eq. Maybe this will net better results?
Oh yeah, and my alt. whine came back! :(
Hey Fric!!! Just registered to see the epicness!!!
So..... SUBBED!! :D
Sweet!
Did you try to allign the drivers per side ? Do the first spikes in the impulse-response window go up?
When ta'ing the drivers per side, I allways set the crossover first and leave em there... Then measure both drivers one at a time and look if the first spike goes up or down.. Correct polarity should be spike up....Attachment 458
Then try to get the spikes at the same point in time..
If you change the xo slopes or values, the ta will be different...
Did you try with some good mono voice? it can be easy sometimes...
reset ta
First play midbasses only, delay te driver-side midbass untill the voice is at the point where you want it ( sometimes it's even that clear that you can mark your window with some tape where the voice "stands"
Then widebanders only, same procedure and try to get them at the marked spot on the windshield..
Then all the front drivers together, while applying delay on the midbass pair to blend them with the widebanders.. after that, add the subs and blend them in..
Did this a couple of times with good results, i find it pretty boring listening to some hissing noise :D
when you start to blend midbass and widebanders it's sometimes easier to hear the "blend" with one side muted(but still apply delay to the muted midbass), the voice starts to pull towards the widebander and suddenly the full voice seem to come out of the widebander, then its mostly on the spot..
Just my $.02