Got a new car and its got some shitty no name CLD all over the damn thing. Its sticky as fuck and legit do not want to take it all off. Is there anything inherently wrong with putting better CLD ontop of it?
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Got a new car and its got some shitty no name CLD all over the damn thing. Its sticky as fuck and legit do not want to take it all off. Is there anything inherently wrong with putting better CLD ontop of it?
It depends on what you mean by "shitty". Is it sticking well to the metal, or is it coming apart? Can you tell if it's butyl or asphalt-based?
No you can't. It's all about how the CLD interacts with the panel it's attached to.
im somewhat on the fence, to me the constrained layer is being made further away from the metal, as long as it’s stuck well, you can effectively make a structure stiffer and more resistant to vibration by increasing substrate layer and moving the foil further away from the panel, as long as the under layer is not soft as hell it will definitely not be worse, it’s basic engineering...Quote:
Originally Posted by Theslaking
how does thicker cld work potentially better (they do 4mm and two mm of various brands... it all depends how shitty the first layer is... so I won’t say it won’t work, it’s a case by case situation
I think I’d use the on site info... as in assess it in person rather than ask people who aren’t there
more layers of deadener does do more... it just doesn’t have the same value for money as the first layer...
I would challenge anyone to apply a single layer of dynamat extreme and then add a second and say the second layer did nothing! If I’m adding extra layers in trouble spots I tend to stagger the joints so it adds rigidity where the constrained layer is broken if that makes sense, even if it’s just adding weight it serves a purpose, however it definitely won’t do nothing
but that’s two layers of the same, it all depends on the first layer, of it’s bad it’s gonna be fun getting it off :(
We did it in spl vehicles with no measurable gain. I don't remember everything but I know we seen a big difference from none to 1 layer and next to no difference from 1 to 2 (and 3 in spots) layers. We did have a small difference from half to full coverage. We were only doing lower frequency sweeps chasing db's but the conclusion was it was a waste of time and money. I wish I could remember details but that was the early 2000's.
We need to get Skizer in on this. He just did all this research scientifically a year ago.
I found this old thread. Seems like layer 1 does most the work. Layer 2 does help tho.
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa...niques.262722/
Of course you *can* stack em. But, it doesn't do much. On important areas i would just do it right and remove it to start fresh. Think doors, rear deck, roof, quarter panels, etc.. Areas like the floor, and other strong/non-resonant parts i would just leave. When you stack layers all you are doing is adding mass. At that point you might as well just glue lead to the old deadener. Its not very efficient. Yes it does *something*, but don't pay much attention to those old school guys that swear by 3 layers. Thats because they use shit deadener thats hardly a constraining layer damper in the first place ;)
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Different application, you were looking to control resonances and make them favourable for the frequency you wanted to play, I’d put money on it we did more testing than you did with spl and deadener, tuning a door skin to a certain frequency for example, or a roof... it all helped and some areas needed 2 layers to get resonances down further and tune the skin slightly differently, it’s far from as simple as applying a single layer everywhere and testing and then applying a double layer everywhere and testing, wed have six sets of doors with different layers and combinations of deadener thickness as an exampleQuote:
Originally Posted by Theslaking
we gained 0.1db by adjusting how the heater box sat on the bulkhead under the bonnet as an example of how anal we were, but I digress... your response is like saying sticky tyres don’t help you go faster round a track because I tested them on gravel roads in the countryside and they didn’t do any better than stock, different situation and different requirements
That's why I put that disclaimer.Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum
I didn't catch where you said you did testing? You got actual results? I just seen where made a suggestion that someone else should and would see positive results.Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum
Your tire analogy is not good here. 2000 hz and down (or whatever it was exactly) is part of the audio spectrum we are trying to play in a car. So your only talking higher frequency?
We got pretty serious with testing. Like flipping cupholders and packing the glovebox with papers to see if it changes things. However we didn't do a sweep to see if we still had a peak at 3200. So yeah I might have missed positive results with thinks like that.
I would be interested in your testing results. I just don't believe it would make enough difference to justify effort and cost even for the avid enthusiast. Nothing bracing panels couldn't do anyways.
Dumdum - I'm not calling you out or anything. After re-reading my post could sound like that.
I'm interested. There was a time when I only used full coverage of CLD. But someone told me it was next to worthless (considering time and cost) so I tried using less. Measured and found that to be true.
It’s all good bud, I didn’t take it as you were, just my take on your input, forums are for discussion, I don’t do right and wrong as such as there’s more ways to skin a cat so to speak!Quote:
Originally Posted by Theslaking
i love a chat about old school db drag days, i was the first guy from the U.K. to take a 1st in a European competition at sinsheim in 2004... then I judged at the finals in Cleveland in 05, was a fun year, then I got serious and got to third/fourth in the world behind VS audio and the finnish street max 1-2 In 2007/2008, I think I ended up fourth in the world that year on the stats as VS got entered twice somehow :D I’m all sq’d Up and full on now aiming for next years 2019 finals that will probably now be next March after this march got cancelled :(
You can, but the cost-to-benefit ratio really drops when you start adding a second layer. If you have some extra laying around after a project (like I just did), it can help a little to reinforce the really bad areas. I just wouldn't go and buy double what you really need. Just get a good quality CLD to start with and you will be fine.
As much as it is going to suck to do...I'd put in the work and gut the low quality stuff. It will only cause you headaches down the road. Heat guns, rubbing alcohol, WD-40, goo gone, and some elbow grease go a long way.
I think it would be better to burn the car and get another one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pb82 Ronin
I tried this once. I think fire is the way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckirocz28
CRC, heatgun, and a putty knife did wonders.