$2500 Full SQ System Suggestions

I'm planning a system, and wanted to see what brilliant ideas/systems y'all could come up with!
I've had a few specific questions before, but wanted to get a big picture look with the expertise available here.


- - - - - Parameters - - - - -
- Keeping stock radio, non JBL, 2021 Toyota Tacoma 4dr
- Stock OEM locations: Door - up to 8" 3.25 depth, Corner Dash - up to 3" diam. (firing up at windshield), can add tweeter to sail panel if needed. NO rear speakers.
- Sub depth up to 5", 1.0 cu ft max (building my own box, don't need to include price in budget)
- Amps under seats (12x8x2 safely)

So, with $2500, what would your build be?


Speakers
Sub
Amps
DSP
Sound Treatment
Wiring


Planning to purchase in 1 month, and want to have all my ducks in a row to do it asap once my bonus check comes in.


PS. I already have a calibrated Umik-1 and some practice with REW.

Speaker Amp - ~$700 - Helix M4 dsp amp - will need to get this from a local dealer
Sub - $500 - JL TW3 12" (Sonic electronics has some decent deals on this sub and amp combo in this box As in if you buy the second link via calling them you can get them to throw in the amp)
Sound treatment - $600 - Resonix all the way
Wiring - $200 - I am a fan of Knu Koncept power and rca pure copper wires. Priced right and well into diminishing wire returns

Speakers - $500 - Maybe a audiofrog gs25 wide band (or another wideband) with peerless sls 6.5" and cross them around 300-400hz.


Total = $2500


That is what I would do if I were to build a system today that was a 2 way in a truck.

@jdunk54nl thanks for the input. I know sound treatment is important, its just sad to see so much of the budget go toward it.

Goes to show how important a piece of the build that is though.....it can make 30 dollar speakers sound like 300 dollar speakers. I've heard it firsthand.

It's like working out...the 80/20 rule, people think it's 80% activity 20% diet but it's actually the inverse of that. Same goes to these installations.....these guys know better than myself but some 32 dollar Silver Flutes could potentially sound much better in a better install than some 'Frogs in a shit install.

I was in the process of giving you some suggestions for your build but I quickly ran out of proverbial money lol. I'll think on it more and revisit.

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Originally Posted by itsZiz

@jdunk54nl thanks for the input. I know sound treatment is important, its just sad to see so much of the budget go toward it.

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This is kind of hard to answer. Most will list what gear they like, but it may or may not be the best for you. Some more details would be useful like is the Tacoma a 4 dr, or extra cab style? What do you want out of the system, SQ and reasonable volume levels, or high SPL with decent SQ? Where are you going to install the sub/subs? Where are you going to install the amps?

I have a 2019 single cab Ram, so space is at a premium, so it dictated my choices to a large degree. If I had a crew cab, I could have chosen differently, although I like my setup. For instance, I went with a JL Audio 12TW1 Power Wedge enclosure. That saved me having to mount another amp somewhere as the amp is built in. If I had a larger vehicle, I may not have used it, even though I'm satisfied with the output. I used a Kicker Key 200.4 for several reasons, one it fits under the radio behind the dash because it's so small, but I was going to use its tuning, until I realized I wanted better sound, so I went with a miniDSP 8X12DL. I wanted to use stock speaker locations, so I used a 6x9 woofer, and wide band dash speakers.

Had someone else chosen my setup for me, I guarantee it would be different than what ultimately worked for me. I think $600 is a lot for deadening. Maybe try just doing the doors really well, and address other areas if needed later. I think you could do wiring for well under $100 if you chose carefully.

Added info about the amps, under both seats I have room for 12x8x2. Sub is in the back with the cu ft i listed as well as SQ focused.

What about a Musway M6v3 for the amplifier/DSP requirement?

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Originally Posted by Euphonic

What about a Musway M6v3 for the amplifier/DSP requirement?

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I havent heard of them before

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Originally Posted by 89grand

This is kind of hard to answer. Most will list what gear they like, but it may or may not be the best for you. Some more details would be useful like is the Tacoma a 4 dr, or extra cab style? What do you want out of the system, SQ and reasonable volume levels, or high SPL with decent SQ? Where are you going to install the sub/subs? Where are you going to install the amps?

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More of this please. If OP is asking what *we* would do, that's easy. But if you want advice on what would make *you* happy, that's really hard without knowing what makes you happy!

I'm not familiar with that vehicle/radio, but will you need any factory integration equipment like a PAC or Maestro unit?
An all-in-one amplifier sounds like a good idea. You could get all 5 channels and a dsp under the seats if it's all one box like the Hertz Jdunk mentioned.
Sound treatments are good too, but $600 worth seems like a lot?

Ya, the $600 was just the extra that was left after everything else. I know that was about what I spent to fully cld, ccf, and mlv my truck.

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Originally Posted by itsZiz

I havent heard of them before

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https://musway.de/english/m6v3-dsp-amplifier.html Might not be the easiest amp to obtain, but it's a valid all-in-one choice that offers expansion.

those Musway amps have my attention Euphonic. Thanks for dropping the name.

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Originally Posted by BenevolentDictator

those Musway amps have my attention Euphonic. Thanks for dropping the name.

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I just learned about it from listening to the Old Fashioned Car Audio podcast. Reminds me a bit of an Audison AP8.9 bit.

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Originally Posted by Euphonic

I just learned about it from listening to the Old Fashioned Car Audio podcast. Reminds me a bit of an Audison AP8.9 bit.

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Originally Posted by BenevolentDictator

those Musway amps have my attention Euphonic. Thanks for dropping the name.

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Euphoric, thanks for linking those Musway, the DSP software is really nice.

Where can you buy them?

My only concern is the rated power compared to the fuse size.

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Originally Posted by itsZiz

Euphoric, thanks for linking those Musway, the DSP software is really nice.

Where can you buy them?

My only concern is the rated power compared to the fuse size.

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A 30a fuse on a 600w amplifier while playing music is not unreasonable. While playing test tones or doing a dyno test, however, it might be unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by Justin Zazzi

A 30a fuse on a 600w amplifier while playing music is not unreasonable. While playing test tones or doing a dyno test, however, it might be unreasonable.

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I think that fuse is just for the electronics, maybe, as their other amps dont even have fuses on them.

PS. you're the one that turned me onto the Peerless SLS (which are out of stock for along time)... how do you think these 8" look?

https://www.slaacoustics.com/collect...-8-woofer-pair

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Originally Posted by itsZiz

I think that fuse is just for the electronics, maybe, as their other amps dont even have fuses on them.

PS. you're the one that turned me onto the Peerless SLS (which are out of stock for along time)... how do you think these 8" look?

https://www.slaacoustics.com/collect...-8-woofer-pair

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When you brought these up in the other thread, I said they looked the best out of the 3 options you posted. If you don't mind fabbing 6x9 to 8" adapters, they have the specs that suggest good performance in a door.

The only thing that concerns me about the Musway products is the fact that no one seems to have heard of them, so others experience with it seems limited, so overall quality and long term reliability is mostly unknown. Also, while all tuning involves the same things, t/a, crossovers, parametric eq, you'll probably have to learn this software all on your own, as opposed to miniDSP, Helix, Zapco, Arc, Dayton, etc where others know how to use those well, and reliability is there.

31 bands of eq almost seems like too much. It's ok, as long as someone realizes they don't have to try to use all of them. I mean you may only need 3 bands on a given driver, or maybe 6 or 8, but 31 probably wouldn't be needed on anything. Of course, there use to be some old saying something like "He who eq's less eq's best" or something like that, but that is bullshit. You eq as much as needed. Just a lot of boosting is a problem.

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Originally Posted by 89grand

When you brought these up in the other thread, I said they looked the best out of the 3 options you posted. If you don't mind fabbing 6x9 to 8" adapters, they have the specs that suggest good performance in a door.

The only thing that concerns me about the Musway products is the fact that no one seems to have heard of them, so others experience with it seems limited, so overall quality and long term reliability is mostly unknown. Also, while all tuning involves the same things, t/a, crossovers, parametric eq, you'll probably have to learn this software all on your own, as opposed to miniDSP, Helix, Zapco, Arc, Dayton, etc where others know how to use those well, and reliability is there.

31 bands of eq almost seems like too much. It's ok, as long as someone realizes they don't have to try to use all of them. I mean you may only need 3 bands on a given driver, or maybe 6 or 8, but 31 probably wouldn't be needed on anything. Of course, there use to be some old saying something like "He who eq's less eq's best" or something like that, but that is bullshit. You eq as much as needed. Just a lot of boosting is a problem.

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You can download the software and play with it. https://musway.de/english/m6v3-dsp-amplifier.html
DSP software i've tried
- Helix (31 peq bands as well, but so many other options it gets convoluted for ME, pros love it)
- ESX (limited peq, unintuitive ui is annoying)
- Audio Control (extremely limited graphic eq compared to PEQ)
- Musway (easiest to use for me so far. intuitive ui, plenty of peqbands)

I agree, its not ideal to be one of the "first" to try something, but I went from dismissing them because I never heard of them, to loving the DSP software so much I shot to the top of my list.

For $1100 I can get a 8 channel 31band peq dsp, 6x70w & 1x650w for a full 3 way active set up. Seems pretty great to me. Until it doesnt work lol

Well, experience with it has to start somewhere. If you like the software, that's a good chunk of the battle. I like miniDSP, but that's what I'm used to. Many people like Helix a lot too. AudioControl should not even be considered because of the worthless graphic eq as you pointed out. I like AC, but not their DSP's.

I don't know the price difference between euro's and US dollars, but if two amps, one with enough dsp and that much power is around $1100, that's not bad. The companies address is in China, not Germany, although the company seems German. Not sure if that means anything.

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Originally Posted by itsZiz

Euphoric, thanks for linking those Musway, the DSP software is really nice.

Where can you buy them?

My only concern is the rated power compared to the fuse size.

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Aunex is the US distributor for Musway. Their dealer locator is here https://www.aunexusa.com/dealerlocator just make sure is says Musway under the dealer name and not just Aunex. The nearest dealer to me is 800-900 miles which is why I said in a previous post that it may not be the easiest product to obtain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin Zazzi

A 30a fuse on a 600w amplifier while playing music is not unreasonable. While playing test tones or doing a dyno test, however, it might be unreasonable.

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I agree with this 100%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 89grand

I don't know the price difference between euro's and US dollars, but if two amps, one with enough dsp and that much power is around $1100, that's not bad. The companies address is in China, not Germany, although the company seems German. Not sure if that means anything.

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Right now 1 Euro is equal to $1.16. The only address I could find for Musway was:

MUSWAY
Audio Design GmbH
Am Breilingsweg 3
D-76709 Kronau/Germany
Phone: +49 7253 - 94 65 0

Audiodesign is the general distributor for the European Union for Musway.
Just like they are for Kicker and Rockford Fosgate.
The Musway had some really good reviews over here in Germany, but pricewise they are comparable to the Helix offerings.
And if you have to pay the same amount for a Helix as you do for a Musway i would choose the Helix.

In the UK it’s up for £520 on the Musway eBay store.

Just tried the app and it looks just like the Nakamichi-DSP app but with more functions.

Shame it doesn’t have shelf or allpass filters then it would be perfect.

For the £140 more a Helix Match 7UP does it all so it’s a tough call if the extra money is worth it.

Does look like a bargain if it works well.

Sadly my Nakamichi-DSP didn’t and was broken by the time I fitted it with no warranty coverage :(

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by SiW80

In the UK it’s up for £520 on the Musway eBay store.

Just tried the app and it looks just like the Nakamichi-DSP app but with more functions.

Shame it doesn’t have shelf or allpass filters then it would be perfect.

For the £140 more a Helix Match 7UP does it all so it’s a tough call if the extra money is worth it.

Does look like a bargain if it works well.

Sadly my Nakamichi-DSP didn’t and was broken by the time I fitted it with no warranty coverage :(

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Forgive my igorance, but when would I need to use an all pass filter or shelf? I'd like to know what important features I might miss with the Musway. Thanks

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Originally Posted by itsZiz

Forgive my igorance, but when would I need to use an all pass filter or shelf? I'd like to know what important features I might miss with the Musway. Thanks

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All pass filters are misunderstood by most, including myself. Knowing when and how to use one is very advanced level of tuning. I wouldn't be concerned not having it. Shelf filters can be useful and convenient, but aren't really needed for a good sounding tune. They're just an easy way of getting a bass or treble boost, without individual eq band boosting.

In simplest terms, all pass filters help make two speakers sum together better. It only works for when two things are playing together. If you just have one thing, you will never hear a difference. Kind of like a polarity swap. No difference with one thing, but playing with something else, noticeable difference.

they do this by changing the phase around a specific frequency that you set, kind of like advanced time delay type of stuff.

They CAN be the difference in am amazing tune and world championship winning tune. It’s like that last 1% of tuning.

now they can also be needed with some newer vehicles. Some people do some CRAZY things to factory oem tunes….

Edit* You should probably have something that can measure phase if you are going to be getting into all pass filters. Something like Open Sound Meter, an xlr microphone, and a microphone to computer interface like the focusrite 2i2 or motu m2.

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Originally Posted by Jdunk54nl

In simplest terms, all pass filters help make two speakers sum together better. It only works for when two things are playing together. If you just have one thing, you will never hear a difference. Kind of like a polarity swap. No difference with one thing, but playing with something else, noticeable difference.

they do this by changing the phase around a specific frequency that you set, kind of like advanced time delay type of stuff.

They CAN be the difference in am amazing tune and world championship winning tune. It’s like that last 1% of tuning.

now they can also be needed with some newer vehicles. Some people do some CRAZY things to factory oem tunes….

Edit* You should probably have something that can measure phase if you are going to be getting into all pass filters. Something like Open Sound Meter, an xlr microphone, and a microphone to computer interface like the focusrite 2i2 or motu m2.

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I have a spectrum calibrated umik-1, if I needed more I have an re-320 mic and interface too.

A vocal/instrument microphone is not the same as a measurement microphone. You will do more harm than good with that. If you already have an interface a emm-6 might be good for you....but this is well after you learn the basics of tuning. You are not there yet.

If I remember correctly, maybe I’m not, but I think Nick A. (In a helix REW video) used the first and last peq bands as a shelf (same concept as a subsonic filter I believe)… to basically turn off frequencies above or below a certain point. So for example, you set a shelf at 22k with a Q of 1.. so the speaker doesn’t waste power or effort playing above my listening range.

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Originally Posted by itsZiz

If I remember correctly, maybe I’m not, but I think Nick A. (In a helix REW video) used the first and last peq bands as a shelf (same concept as a subsonic filter I believe)… to basically turn off frequencies above or below a certain point. So for example, you set a shelf at 22k with a Q of 1.. so the speaker doesn’t waste power or effort playing above my listening range.

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I'm not sure there is much value in doing that, but you could do the same thing, and even do it better with the crossover.

Did you not read the first part where I said I had a calibrated UMIK-1. I was saying I had a second mic as well

The miniDSP Umik-1 is good. That's all you need. Even the included 0 and 90 degree calibration files are all that is really needed for tuning.

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Originally Posted by itsZiz

Did you not read the first part where I said I had a calibrated UMIK-1. I was saying I had a second mic as well

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i did, I just didn’t think I needed to respond to that part. But I guess I do. That microphone is a usb microphone and has limits on what it can measure compared to a xlr measurement mic and interface. This is due to loop back things and clock drift.

usb microphones are great for starting out due to the simplicity, but most will reach their limits quick. An xlr measurement mic and interface doesn’t have a whole lot of limits. Similar to the helix dsp in reality. Not a lot of limits to it. The musway it appears does have some limits but are far off.