Two 12" Brahmas VS. One 15" Brahma VS. One 10" Hutchinson NDFEB

I decided to do some comparisons to help me decide what my favorite type of sub/box is - my existing Hutchinson 10" in a small-ish ported box (about 1.3 cu.ft), vs two 12" Brahmas in a small-ish sealed box (about 2.3 cu.ft), vs one 15" Brahma in a large sealed box (about 3.4 cu.ft).

They will get 2,000 rms @ 2ohm from an Mmats 2000.2, and will be tuned individually with Dirac.

Below is the box being built for the two 12"s, and next I'll build the box for the 15". As always, 3/4" BB plywood and NO drywall screws!


The Jeep's tailgate has an angled protrusion on the driver's side, so I chose to put 45s in both side to give it symmetry:


https://i.postimg.cc/VNXz6ynF/IMG-20...-111802301.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/gcgmrHX1/IMG-20...-135910760.jpg

I know, I know, I didn't miter the joints properly! Lol

This box doesn't need bracing as the individual panel runs aren't very long, but I decided to have some fun with scrap plywood. ;)

https://i.postimg.cc/J0z8PGgT/IMG-20...-135929781.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/gJDdVvMX/IMG-20...-135941563.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/pTxR50BM/IMG-20...-135948255.jpg


That's where I'm at for now...

Cool!

My prediction:

#1) The 15" in largish sealed.

#2) The Hutchison.

#3) The two 12" in smallish sealed.

...because, reasons. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grinder

Cool!

My prediction:

#1) The 15" in largish sealed.

#2) The Hutchison.

#3) The two 12" in smallish sealed.

...because, reasons. :p

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Alright, I like predictions! I do have a feeling that I prefer the sound of sealed over ported...

I'm going with the 2 12s....can't beat the cone area advantage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BenevolentDictator

I'm going with the 2 12s....can't beat the cone area advantage.

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You DO have a point... According to this chart, the two 12"s have almost 3x the cone area of the one 10". The single 15" has 2.25x the area of the 10", but the two 12"s still have 22% more cone area than the single 15".

I realize this is just a rough estimate:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...mYtMcLRS9XL1bQ

With my tiny little 2 door Jeep trunk, I had to get a little funky to fit the 12"... I just added a little step out:


https://i.postimg.cc/W3BNg19F/IMG-20...-102425816.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/FRdFYLxX/IMG-20...-103255011.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/255SfJb6/IMG-20...-103306011.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/KjtZNhV9/IMG-20...-103336352.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/MGrKZDVY/IMG-20...-103415213.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/ZYNKZ6Rr/IMG-20...-103447602.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Pqs6wsH3/IMG-20...-131046578.jpg

Paper thin on the top baffle!

https://i.postimg.cc/Y0bV6XR4/IMG-20...-153522523.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/h4rHRjnS/IMG-20...-153542308.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/4yJqhC6k/IMG-20...-153610098.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grinder

Cool!

My prediction:

#1) The 15" in largish sealed.

#2) The Hutchison.

#3) The two 12" in smallish sealed.

...because, reasons. :p

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I’m going to agree with this. But I’m a bit biased... I’ve had all 3 of those boxes (different drivers of course) and currently have a single 15 IB (which essentially a big sealed box, right?) and FOR ME it’s the best sounding sub I’ve ever had. I’m curious how this ends up.

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Originally Posted by TheTodd

I’m going to agree with this. But I’m a bit biased... I’ve had all 3 of those boxes (different drivers of course) and currently have a single 15 IB (which essentially a big sealed box, right?) and FOR ME it’s the best sounding sub I’ve ever had. I’m curious how this ends up.

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I'm a bit biased too, enjoying a pair of Dayton HF 15s in 3 cubes ea. at home. However, much as I like them in this configuration, I wish I had the space to try them vented in ~9 cubes ea., tuned at ~18Hz.

On the 15" I will be giving it twice it's rated power, or probably more than twice as I'm quite certain that this Mmats amp is underrated... We will see if it can handle it! ;) Obviously, the two 12"s are perfectly matched to the available power.

My prediction is that I will like the two 12"s, but I have never even heard a 15" so maybe I'm wrong! :)

15s can be absolutely violent depending on what you listen to. I've heard them in numerous configurations and have never been disappointed. I have a friend with 2 of them ported on huge power....it's ridiculous. I had a single 15 in 2.5 cubes ported on a shade under 2k and it shook my lowly Sonata to the bracing.

I'm curious about how the 12s will do personally.

What music will you be testing them with?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DavidRam

On the 15" I will be giving it twice it's rated power, or probably more than twice as I'm quite certain that this Mmats amp is underrated... We will see if it can handle it! ;) Obviously, the two 12"s are perfectly matched to the available power.

My prediction is that I will like the two 12"s, but I have never even heard a 15" so maybe I'm wrong! :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BenevolentDictator

15s can be absolutely violent depending on what you listen to. I've heard them in numerous configurations and have never been disappointed. I have a friend with 2 of them ported on huge power....it's ridiculous. I had a single 15 in 2.5 cubes ported on a shade under 2k and it shook my lowly Sonata to the bracing.

I'm curious about how the 12s will do personally.

What music will you be testing them with?

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I listen to a wide variety... My bass specific reference songs, though, include Gourdon Banks - Keep you in mind, Khalid - Outta my head, and Khalid - Hundred, NF - Real and for SQ, Chris Jones - Long after you're gone.

Nice range.

If you want an instrumental to try there is a beat by this kid named Jordyn Edmonds called "Sea"...you can track it down on his bandcamp (from his In A Dream album) or on Youtube if you want to source it from there real quick for a snippet. Has a nasty low end throughout

Almost done

https://i.postimg.cc/pLWpfsW-x/IMG-2...-145150423.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/g2grN3jh/IMG-20...-145212928.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/nL5rtZvc/IMG-20...-145251161.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/QtTt8Pbg/IMG-20...-145422725.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/RVQWJkzX/IMG-20...-145430661.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/43nyMnHS/IMG-20...-162024868.jpg

Dang, that looks sweet! Super clean and innovative work, as always!

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Originally Posted by Grinder

Dang, that looks sweet! Super clean and innovative work, as always!

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Thank you! The idea was to continue the angles into the rest of the box (vs. the usual round overs) and then the angle in the outer layer of the baffle, which stripped the edges down in to a curve, is to give a little peak at the big beefy subs. So far it's coming together better than I hoped for! Lol

There will be 3 finishes - carpet, flat black paint, and perforated aluminum to match the trim.

I ordered this sheet:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/G10AA...8I/s-l1600.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/vHpVf0y1/IMG-20...-101020513.jpg

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I'm looking forward to seeing that. Your end result always looks so much better than anything I imagine from your description.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grinder

I'm looking forward to seeing that. Your end result always looks so much better than anything I imagine from your description.

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Wow, with a compliment like that, the pressure is ON!!! Lol

I appreciate it!

Can't wait to hear your assessment of the 2 Brahma's. I remember ToNasty saying the 2 12" Brahma's he heard on 1500 watts was the best sub setup he's ever heard.

I think I already know which one David is going to like best. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by JCsAudio

I think I already know which one David is going to like best. :thumbup:

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Which one has your vote??

15 sealed has my vote but it might be close.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JCsAudio

15 sealed has my vote but it might be close.

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Interesting... Well, it did come in last night and, WOW, it's big! 15" doesn't sound like that big a sub until it's in front of you! As far as looks go, that thing looking back out at me when I open the trunk, will definitely have the most wow factor.

I should be able to finish the 12s box this week and give them a listen... Then I'll start building the next box.

Done and ready for a test bump. I'll cover it later.

Push terminals all around:

https://i.postimg.cc/R04Mb3Bc/IMG-20...-132232816.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/kgxJcQkJ/IMG-20...-132305145.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/sX23st1x/IMG-20...-161123985.jpg

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https://i.postimg.cc/cH50HX8m/IMG-20...-161159894.jpg

Damn looks good! I've been wanting to try a Brahma 12 for a while. Keeping an eye on this one!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by foreman

Damn looks good! I've been wanting to try a Brahma 12 for a while. Keeping an eye on this one!

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They are really beefy, beautiful subs!

Beefy is right! I had no idea what to expect, but those surrounds are massive! I imagine the motors are massive as well.

Beautiful work, as usual.

Ok, so I fired it up, and here are my initial impression BEFORE touching anything in the tune:
The two 12s easily have the same or better output than the Hutchinson. Also, without even measuring I can tell they have a much flatter frequency response, they neither peak nor fall off much anywhere to my ears...
Keep in mind that is at the same settings that Dirac Live gave the Hutchinson. After adjusting crossovers and retuning with DL, who knows what they will do! ;)
They are smooth sounding subs but will absolutely kick your butt!
Bad news, I've got some new rattles...

I think I have come to the conclusion that I like the sound of sealed better than ported. To me it seems tighter, cleaner, more precise, etc..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DavidRam

I think I have come to the conclusion that I like the sound of sealed better than ported. To me it seems tighter, cleaner, more precise, etc..

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Do you mean in general, or specifically the two sealed Brahma 12s versus the ported Hutchinson 10 in your current vehicle?

While ported can be a lot harder to get right, both sealed and ported alignments can sound amazing or awful, depending on all manner of driver, cabinet and cabin/room variables.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grinder

Do you mean in general, or specifically the two sealed Brahma 12s versus the ported Hutchinson 10 in your current vehicle?

While ported can be a lot harder to get right, both sealed and ported alignments can sound amazing or awful, depending on all manner of driver, cabinet and cabin/room variables.

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Well, definitely the two 12" Brahmas over the Hutchinson, but also generally speaking. I have had quite a few sealed and two ported. I like the characteristics of sealed, so to get the output of a ported, I need big, beefy subs and lots of power.

I can only imagine what two 15"s would be like!!!

You are a master box builder. I too prefer sealed over ported. I think I'm a little jealous right now. I'm only able to get 1.5 cu ft total under my floor and still be stealth. Right now I have Zero rattles. I'm sure that would not be the case with those suckers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stycker

You are a master box builder. I too prefer sealed over ported. I think I'm a little jealous right now. I'm only able to get 1.5 cu ft total under my floor and still be stealth. Right now I have Zero rattles. I'm sure that would not be the case with those suckers.

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Thanks a lot! These are definitely some fun sounding subs! They have a very interesting sound, I'm trying to figure out how to describe it...

After a little more SQ and bass heavy listening this morning, I am still convinced that in all genres the two 12s sound better than the Hutchinson. BUT I found one exception... This song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5zT1krKOc is one of my bass demo songs. At full tilt the Hutchinson gives you a more fun and intense SPL experience. The Brahmas sound a little restricted, if that makes sense, whereas the Hutchinson goes nuts. Of course I haven't touched the tune yet, so it's not really a fair comparison yet.

wow that NF/artist sounds really mad. Bottomed out the 1/2 inch subwoofer on my laptop too! :D

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Originally Posted by diy.phil

wow that NF/artist sounds really mad. Bottomed out the 1/2 inch subwoofer on my laptop too! :D

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THAT is the song that drops jaws when I demo the Jeep!

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Originally Posted by DavidRam

THAT is the song that drops jaws when I demo the Jeep!

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Thanks! Awhile back I hooked up my '90s Paradigm PS-1200 4th order of my bedroom system via miniDSP, and spent some time dialing it in, but haven't really used much since...

It's not really my cup of tea, but DAMN if that song didn't get some air moving and rattling everything! Gotta hear that through the pair of sealed Dayton HF 15s of my living room system later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grinder

Thanks! Awhile back I hooked up my '90s Paradigm PS-1200 4th order of my bedroom system via miniDSP, and spent some time dialing it in, but haven't really used much since...

It's not really my cup of tea, but DAMN if that song didn't get some air moving and rattling everything! Gotta hear that through the pair of sealed Dayton HF 15s of my living room system later.

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On two 15s it will be really fun! Lmk, what you think. It's not my cup of tea either, but an impressive demo... I have used these songs numerous times on a number of different subs, and I know them so well that I can pick up the slightest differences.
Also, this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxFKhmHSvbg the kick drum on this song is the one that sounds much better on the Brahmas than on the Hutchinson. It will literally recalibrate your heart beat at a certain level!
That is another bass demo/reference song of mine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DavidRam

On two 15s it will be really fun! Lmk, what you think. It's not my cup of tea either, but an impressive demo... I have used these songs numerous times on a number of different subs, and I know them so well that I can pick up the slightest differences.
Also, this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxFKhmHSvbg the kick drum on this song is the one that sounds much better on the Brahmas than on the Hutchinson. It will literally recalibrate your heart beat at a certain level!
That is another bass demo/reference song of mine.

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Meh...

These HF 15s would be soooooo much more fun in my car. While I do like them a lot, even in the far less than ideal largish room they're in, I'm 100% convinced that I'd like them a whole lot more if they were vented. WinISD modeling results suggest 9.5 ft^3/ea., tuned at 18 Hz, for flat response down to 23 Hz, and an F3 of 17 Hz - versus their present 3.0 ft^3/ea. sealed F3 of 34 Hz.

And, of course, those two 15s struggle to keep up with 3-way horn satellites. This would be less of an issue if they were vented. I wouldn't have to cut the gain quite so much on the horns, and I wouldn't have to PEQ the heck out of the 15s.

Speaking of kick drum, here's one of my favorite demo tracks. I always skip the first part and begin around 2:37. There's so much great stuff in the remainder of this track, but what I like most is drums from 3:33 to 4:23.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpMoYTTO1k8