How to charge devices connected to Helix USB HEC module

Hi all,

It's been a while since I have had time to post and thought I should start with something many of you are interested in. I've tested what I'm getting ready to explain and it works perfectly in my BRZ using a iPad Mini. Here goes.

So this is my setup that charges. iPad Mini to USB-3 charging USB port device to powered USB hub to HEC Module. I also have the other 3 ports of the powered hub setup for a SMSL DAC that provides toslink out and the other 2 ports for attaching USB thumb drives for playing music off of. So, how this works in charging the iPad mini is that the HEC module is getting power from the powered USB hub to operate. The USB-3 connector is charging the iPad mini at the same time. Anyone could swap the iPad mini with any other main source. Example: I have a Sony Xperia 1 II phone. I can connect it to a OTG cable with power to it and still charge while the Helix uses the power from the powered USB hub.

Enjoy!

Welcome back, Bo. Are you going to SVR next weekend?

Is the iPad controlling the additional thumb drives?

I presume you mean a cck-3 camera connection kit when you says a usb3 charging port device? That’s standard issue

if so the hub doesn’t power the usb hec, the hec is entirely self powered from within the helix

the usb drives are something I’ve got working after 14.x somewhere update, it’s not as clean in operation as an android device, but it does work… to expand you can’t play direct from the usb hub, you have to drag items of music to the device into something like the ho res player from onkyo and play it from the iPad, basically you can now move files from a usb device to the pad or phone

wjat you can’t do is plug a usb drive in and play files from the usb stick without moving them (that I’ve found anyway, I’m happy to be corrected on this @zippy) from memory you have to do some joggers pokery with the files app to put the desired audio content on the iPad physically

im also curious as to why you need a usb hec and a lb smsl usb bridge to get optical from the iPad to the dsp? Why not just run optical and cut the hec out of your life completely (using the usb hub before the hec may resolve someone the charging issues you get when running cck3 to a usb hec… that may actually be a thing and good for solving the usb hec issue

as for hubs, I have tried with success the ram mount five usb hub on my iPad and it did work, it also didn’t like the topping sometimes and seemed to lose its ability to play audio from the D10s, this setup also overcame the weak supply from the cck3 that has been lowered in current on new devices I think and let me plug the lightening to usb cable into the hub and into the cck3 and charge the phone from the hub as well, odd but it does work :)

Good effort…

ps have you compared the smsl audio quality with the usb hec and swapped back and forth?

like using the camera-kit adapter to charge a lightning-ported device (iphone, older ipad, etc), i'd look at using a usb-c digital av adapter. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/M...tiport-adapter

usb-c male: ipad
usb-c female: charger
usb-a female: usb-hub and accessories
hdmi female: unused

then the ipad and av adapter provide power to the usb-hub and accessories.

my laptop's got usb-c for power/accessories/etc. i use one of these adapters for tuning. i have a 45w power adapter buried in the center console. in the back, i have a usb hub with both DSPs attached.

i assume the usb-hec will behave the same way

for a lightning-port enabled idevice, i'd use a camer kit adapter like dumdum mentioned. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/M...camera-adapter

lightning male: ipad
lighting female: charger
usb-a female: usb-hub and accessories

that takes care of the physical connections. however, except for using Files on iPadOS, you can't play content directly from a USB drive. for software like Onkyo HD Player, they need to be copied into the iThing's internal storage.

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Originally Posted by BigAl205

Welcome back, Bo. Are you going to SVR next weekend?

Is the iPad controlling the additional thumb drives?

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I'm going to try to make it over to SVR this saturday. I don't compete but if it's a chance to get together with others it's worth the drive.

Yes I am playing off the thumb drive. Using the files app standard on the iPad you can browse your thumb drive and it'll play .wav .mp3 .mp4 .m4v etc off the thumb drive just fine. Only drawback is that it's single play only then back to folder view.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dumdum

I presume you mean a cck-3 camera connection kit when you says a usb3 charging port device? That’s standard issue

if so the hub doesn’t power the usb hec, the hec is entirely self powered from within the helix

the usb drives are something I’ve got working after 14.x somewhere update, it’s not as clean in operation as an android device, but it does work… to expand you can’t play direct from the usb hub, you have to drag items of music to the device into something like the ho res player from onkyo and play it from the iPad, basically you can now move files from a usb device to the pad or phone

wjat you can’t do is plug a usb drive in and play files from the usb stick without moving them (that I’ve found anyway, I’m happy to be corrected on this @zippy) from memory you have to do some joggers pokery with the files app to put the desired audio content on the iPad physically

im also curious as to why you need a usb hec and a lb smsl usb bridge to get optical from the iPad to the dsp? Why not just run optical and cut the hec out of your life completely (using the usb hub before the hec may resolve someone the charging issues you get when running cck3 to a usb hec… that may actually be a thing and good for solving the usb hec issue

as for hubs, I have tried with success the ram mount five usb hub on my iPad and it did work, it also didn’t like the topping sometimes and seemed to lose its ability to play audio from the D10s, this setup also overcame the weak supply from the cck3 that has been lowered in current on new devices I think and let me plug the lightening to usb cable into the hub and into the cck3 and charge the phone from the hub as well, odd but it does work :)

Good effort…

ps have you compared the smsl audio quality with the usb hec and swapped back and forth?

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It's the USB3 camera kit I'm charging the iPad with and the powered USB hub that is providing power to the HEC module. The HEC module pulls power from the device it's attached to. So without the powered hub it'll prevent ANY device attached from charging as it pulls that power instead.

I left the SMSL X-usb in from the prior DSP setup I was using, USB3 camera kit to SMSL to Arc PS8. I knew I could charge using it so it was my fall back plan for road trips if this did not work. I have the Helix WiFi module also so I can control source from the app on my iPad Mini. Sound quality on the DAC is amazing on the PS8. I'm playing DSD through NEPlayer. Helix though didn't follow toslink standard and are doing thier own thing. Toslink supports 192/24 stereo and 96/24 to five channel. Helix fibre optic cable port caps at 96/24........Both sound good, having to downsample on the SMSL makes it an unfair comparison.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nadams5755

for a lightning-port enabled idevice, i'd use a camer kit adapter like dumdum mentioned. https://www.apple.com/shop/product/M...camera-adapter

lightning male: ipad
lighting female: charger
usb-a female: usb-hub and accessories

that takes care of the physical connections. however, except for using Files on iPadOS, you can't play content directly from a USB drive. for software like Onkyo HD Player, they need to be copied into the iThing's internal storage.

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Thanks for the links to products for use. The USB thumb drive playing works just fine as I mentioned above. You don't HAVE to have a third party app unless you are using flac files or something of the like.

FLACs play from Finder/Files natively as of iOS/iPadOS 13.

when i had the helix+hec, i made sure i used a usb3 shielded cable with large conductors for 5v and ground. i didn't want to deal with any voltage drop over longer wires. i never had any problems with the HEC showing "too much power draw"

there's a message about Accessory Not Supported with the HEC but it still works as a playback device. should still get charging via ck3 as of iOS/iPadOS 13.3 too.

i think for compatibility reasons, helix is sticking with 96k/24b PCM stereo on toslink spdif, upwards of 192k/24b PCM needs coax spdif (and one of their up-leveled processors). or the usb-HEC.

i pivoted to using a topping d10 as a usb/spdif bridge and aborted on the HEC (then later switched to a new radio aborting on the usb audio hell).

Good post, I abandoned this idea of trying to get the iPad mini to charge and use the Helix HEC-USB as mentioned using a genuine Apple CCK3 adapter it won't charge and went to the Topping D10s from the Apple CCK3 to DSP via Coax

My setup is iPad to genuine apple lighting CCK3 adapter, the CCK3 is then connected to a charger using a lighting to usb cable. The USB port on the CCK3 is connected to a powered USB hub. I then connected the Topping D10s to the usb hub and also a usb steering control adapter. This setup works flawlessly.

I read through your post and i'm confused to how you got the charging working on your iPad with the HEC-USB. Are you using a genuine Apple CCK3?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mitesh33

Good post, I abandoned this idea of trying to get the iPad mini to charge and use the Helix HEC-USB as mentioned using a genuine Apple CCK3 adapter it won't charge and went to the Topping D10s from the Apple CCK3 to DSP via Coax

My setup is iPad to genuine apple lighting CCK3 adapter, the CCK3 is then connected to a charger using a lighting to usb cable. The USB port on the CCK3 is connected to a powered USB hub. I then connected the Topping D10s to the usb hub and also a usb steering control adapter. This setup works flawlessly.

I read through your post and i'm confused to how you got the charging working on your iPad with the HEC-USB. Are you using a genuine Apple CCK3?

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The hub feeds the hec with a 5v feed which is something I’d not considered, it’s very possible a modified usb lead to the hec would also solve the issue by feeding the 5v line with an external 5v feed from a usb charger

i have had to do similar with toppings as somehow the current has been restricted with updates somehow…

however I will add that the topping performs better than a usb hec for me when I tested it…

i've used these before with success but not currently available. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NIGO4NM

If he using genuine apple cck3. Soon as the iPad/iPhone sees the HEC-USB you’ll get the unsupported device message then the charging will stop. Even if the HEC-USB is powered from another 5v line.

I’ve modified my usb lead from the CCK3 to the usb hub so it only uses for data. The hub is powered so I didn’t want to pull any power from the ipad

the unsupported message should remain but it should still charge with a charger attached to the cck3.

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Originally Posted by nadams5755

the unsupported message should remain but it should still charge with a charger attached to the cck3.

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I have tried this with a genuine apple CCK3 and it won’t charge the iPad. Which is why I got the Topping D10s instead.

the not charging thing appeared in like ios..12 or 13? then fixed in 12.2 or 13.2, respectively? i forget the exact major version number. i filed a couple bugs with apple and charging got fixed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nadams5755

the not charging thing appeared in like ios..12 or 13? then fixed in 12.2 or 13.2, respectively? i forget the exact major version number. i filed a couple bugs with apple and charging got fixed.

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It’s never been fixed as far as I know, and Doug was working with apple but it didn’t come to a solution, so I’m gonna say it never got fixed

I've tried on all versions until the latest version of iOS 14 and using the Genuine Apple CCK3, it will not charge the iPhone/iPad when connected to the Helix HEC-USB. As mentioned since then I've been using the Topping D10s connected via Digital Coax to the Helix DSP flawlessly, charges with no errors.

Thanks I haven't used Topping D10 yet!