Helix RTA & Auto EQ - A Car Audio Junkies Exclusive

Hey guys, some of us were recently talking about the RTA and its auto eq function in the Helix DSP software. I realized that even though i work with these things daily for the past 2+ years, i have never even used the RTA or its auto eq function, so i decided to give it a shot WHILE also filming it to show everyone how to use it. Since i was filming it while i personally was figuring it out, your going to have to excuse any mistakes. To give a TLDR, it works.. pretty damn well. That said, i want to make some notes about it first. I also want to make it known that this video will only be hosted here. If you want to show people this video, link this thread. Reason being, i would love for this site to grow.

1) It is only a tool. And you know the golden rules for using tools... A TOOL IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PERSON USING IT. What i mean by this, is that taking proper measurements is actually more complicated than people give credit to, and sometimes interpriting them is even harder. I'm sure you have seen the typical "rta doesnt tell you everything, use your ears".. Like i said, it is a tool that is often misunderstood.

2) The auto eq works well and is actually easy to use. That said, there are still things that you need to understand to make decent use of it. You need a basic understanding of how audio works and how to use a dsp and basic tuning knowledge will help. You still have to set crossovers, set signal delay, and set up your input/output matrixing. Also applying any input correction if needed. To get the most out of the auto eq, you will want to make sure that there are no phase issues between pairs of drivers, and through crossover ranges. You will want to make sure that each channel is level matched as closely as possible. You will want to make sure your crossovers are actually behaving through the crossover region, meaning there is no early roll off, no phase issues, etc etc.. You can still make use of the auto eq feature without knowing this stuff and just setting crossover and TA, but it will obviously not be as good and you wont get as much out of your setup as you could be.

3) It works, and pretty damn well. I have been using the tune you see in the video below for about 4 days now, and frankly i would probably ok with giving this to a customer. I say probably because its not perfect, but its still good. I have to go back in and adjust a few frequencies (i personally am very sensitive in the 2.5k-5k region to the point where a typical house curve is a bit painful for me in that region). I also say probably becasue i think i can get the center a bit tighter after a bit of "by ear" adjustments. That said, this is a new install for me in my car, and i dont know its potential by doing a tune with REW or with Systune, or by ear. In my previous installs in this car, i have done multiple tunes using every method you can possibly think of, and am familiar with the potential of the previous setup. I am not fully familiar with the potential with the new setup. That said, the new setup with the auto eq already sounds better than the car ever has, but i'm positive thats due to the install. TLDR: its good, surprisingly good actually, but im psoitive i could do better with my other methods that take 10x or more the amount of time (systune and verification by ear).

4) this is not a professional quality video. Just me filming as i was figuring stuff out. sue me (edit: ha, if you know, you know lol)


***Video deleted by OP***

That's pretty damn sweet. Thanks for posting the tutorial.


...and showing us how to unlock your phone :trolldance:

That is awesome... Thanks so much for taking the time to run through that and create the video. I'm slacking on my Helix DSP.3 upgrade - haven't really done any of the testing I had planned on yet, let alone actually install it in-car, but this will come in handy when I quit being lazy and get 'r done. :-)

Really looking forward to see what kind of difference I get just going from my DSR-1 to a PAC AP4/Helix DSP.3. Was watching a Five Star Car Stereo live-stream the other day about DSP's and they replaced a DSR-1 with a higher-end DSP (Mosconi, I think) and the guy said it sounded *so* much better - just from upgrading the DSP hardware (I think it was the same tune - just different a better DSP).

Awesome work Nick! Thanks for contributing!

So does the Auto-EQ only make graphic EQ adjustments (i.e. no changes to Q or center frequency)?

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Originally Posted by BigAl205

That's pretty damn sweet. Thanks for posting the tutorial.


...and showing us how to unlock your phone :trolldance:

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Of course. And I usually have no lock for my phone but the ResoNix gmail settings for some reason require me to have one

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Originally Posted by metanium

Awesome work Nick! Thanks for contributing!

So does the Auto-EQ only make graphic EQ adjustments (i.e. no changes to Q or center frequency)?

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Yeah, it's only graphic. But at the end of the day, who cares as long as its hitting the target without leaving anything on the table

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Thx Nick. Awesome video. I'm looking forward to dropping the Hellcat off on the 11th!

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Originally Posted by thedynoguy

Thx Nick. Awesome video. I'm looking forward to dropping the Hellcat off on the 11th!

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Thanks! And yeah, should be a fun week :)

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Nice!

Just watched, this is really nice. Thanks for doing this.

I have a Helix P Six, but never really tried this function. I probably spent WAY too much time on REW like you said vs just working with this built-in free tool! I did learn alot with REW but could have had a nice tune in min's using this. Maybe I will try this and do a A/B vs my "REW" manual tune. Should be interesting...

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Originally Posted by banshee28

Just watched, this is really nice. Thanks for doing this.

I have a Helix P Six, but never really tried this function. I probably spent WAY too much time on REW like you said vs just working with this built-in free tool! I did learn alot with REW but could have had a nice tune in min's using this. Maybe I will try this and do a A/B vs my "REW" manual tune. Should be interesting...

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Yeah, tried it again last night and its absurd how quick it is, and how accurate it is.

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Originally Posted by SkizeR

Yeah, tried it again last night and its absurd how quick it is, and how accurate it is.

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I took a break from tuning, as I have been so frustrated I almost pulled the Helix out and put it in classifieds the other day. :(

But I have un-bunched my panties, and I am gonna watch this video eleven-teen times and try this feature!!! Thanks again for doing this!!!

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Originally Posted by DavidRam

I took a break from tuning, as I have been so frustrated I almost pulled the Helix out and put it in classifieds the other day. :(

But I have un-bunched my panties, and I am gonna watch this video eleven-teen times and try this feature!!! Thanks again for doing this!!!

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idk why you havent called me for help.. seriously. you are *the* only person that i have seen that feels this way about it

I’ve done it in the past like that, and occasionally pretty great results.

In fact in about 45 minutes I tuned up Jeff Hyder’s car with the old V3 version in a Brax DSP/amp including auto-EQ on individual drivers first, then by-ear-TA, then just a whole left and whole right side sanity check.

It seriously makes it pretty darn easy and this is also a good way for a DSP-new guy to learn when they’re new to tuning.

The ability to quickly mod, save and pull up 1/3 octave curve files is way too nice.

Also.. Folks should know, and if I missed it in the video I apologize, that you can select beyond just bar 1/3 octave for the measurement resolution and the look of the curve.. I like 1/6 “line”. All that is in RTA settings.

One thing I didn’t know you could do, or had forgotten it so thanks Nick for that, is importing the cal file for the microphone. Big kudos for showing that.


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Originally Posted by SkizeR

idk why you havent called me for help.. seriously. you are *the* only person that i have seen that feels this way about it

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It's not the Helix per say, it's that me and it were not made for each other! Lol. I just can't get things working flawlessly. I have it EQed to were it sounds great, but I have that distortion issue that I can't figure out. I want to let the thread I started on diyma get buried because it mentions the GB10s and the issue has nothing to do with them.

Btw, I even got a wifi range extender to try and get wifi in the garage so we can do some remote tuning, but it still doesn't reach! Grrrrr

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Originally Posted by DavidRam

It's not the Helix per say, it's that me and it were not made for each other! Lol. I just can't get things working flawlessly. I have it EQed to were it sounds great, but I have that distortion issue that I can't figure out. I want to let the thread I started on diyma get buried because it mentions the GB10s and the issue has nothing to do with them.

Btw, I even got a wifi range extender to try and get wifi in the garage so we can do some remote tuning, but it still doesn't reach! Grrrrr

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You and that Helix were both made in Germany so surely you can both come to an understanding somehow.

Nick - Could you list the tracks you used when you were verifying the sound (TA, etc)? Also, what pink noise track do you use? I've always read to use a female vocal to do TA on the tweeters and mids, and a male vocal for woofers. I'd like to know what tracks are you (or anyone else for that matter) find best for those two situations. I use polarity ticks and have never really liked it.

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Originally Posted by Hillbilly SQ

You and that Helix were both made in Germany so surely you can both come to an understanding somehow.

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You would think so, right?! Unfortunately, I spent 3 years building a close relationship with MiniDSP and that has me spoiled a bit... ;)


But I'm not giving up yet!!!

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Originally Posted by DavidRam

You would think so, right?! Unfortunately, I spent 3 years building a close relationship with MiniDSP and that has me spoiled a bit... ;)


But I'm not giving up yet!!!

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Yeah me too. I just tolerate the Helix software but it is hard to not be cluttered when there's so much going on for tweakability. The Helix is a far superior unit though unless you lump it in with the 8x12 and Dirac. Even then I'm not sure if the minidsp hardware is as good. To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard of a Helix failing under normal use but I'm sure it happens occasionally like with anything electronic.

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Originally Posted by Souths1der

Nick - Could you list the tracks you used when you were verifying the sound (TA, etc)? Also, what pink noise track do you use? I've always read to use a female vocal to do TA on the tweeters and mids, and a male vocal for woofers. I'd like to know what tracks are you (or anyone else for that matter) find best for those two situations. I use polarity ticks and have never really liked it.

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I won't answer for Nick, but I use just a full-bandwidth pink noise file.. There's a bunch out there but just a good quality clean signal pink noise file just suffice.. You can even output a .wav pink noise file that's pretty good from Room EQ Wizard I believe. I also like band-limited third octave pink noise tracks to narrow in on areas for "ear" work, including checking TA between pairs, and sometimes also for tweets to mids, mids to midbass etc but it's definitely not all that easy I think for phase checking since phase wraps may not be parallel between drivers in the region checked. There's a noise generator app for iOS that will actually allow you to narrow the bandwidth to any width throughout the spectrum. But for the RTA, just full-range PN is appropriate.

Not sure if this would help, but...
https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/show...st-Tuning-disk

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Originally Posted by Souths1der

Nick - Could you list the tracks you used when you were verifying the sound (TA, etc)? Also, what pink noise track do you use? I've always read to use a female vocal to do TA on the tweeters and mids, and a male vocal for woofers. I'd like to know what tracks are you (or anyone else for that matter) find best for those two situations. I use polarity ticks and have never really liked it.

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Dont use ANYTHING to verify TA by ear. Just use a tape measure. Seriously. When I do impulse response, the settings are nearly identical to tape measure. Within an inch or so, aka, just me being lazy to not get the perfect number. Pink noise is correlated pink noise from rew.

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Originally Posted by DavidRam

But I'm not giving up yet!!!

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Just. Call. Me.







No homo

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Awesome as others have said. Thank you!

Two things:
1. Those of us that suffer from motion sickness would love it if you could find a way to mount the camera somehow. I couldn't watch it full screen.
2. The entire internet now knows how to unlock your phone. Just sayin.

Again, thanks for an awesome tutorial. The less software we have to use to get a good tune started the better.

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Originally Posted by Dan17ExplLtd

Awesome as others have said. Thank you!

Two things:
1. Those of us that suffer from motion sickness would love it if you could find a way to mount the camera somehow. I couldn't watch it full screen.
2. The entire internet now knows how to unlock your phone. Just sayin.

Again, thanks for an awesome tutorial. The less software we have to use to get a good tune started the better.

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1) buy me go pro mounts :)

2) i usually keep no lock (aint no one got time for that), but my resonix email settings require me to have a lock on my phone

Amazon says it'll be there Saturday. :D

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Originally Posted by Dan17ExplLtd

Amazon says it'll be there Saturday. :D

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so should i cancel my order? lol

Never hurts to have an extra.

Um, now I want one of those Helix DSP’s because of that feature. The JL can’t do that and it can’t do global EQ like the Helix either.

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Originally Posted by JCsAudio

Um, now I want one of those Helix DSP’s because of that feature. The JL can’t do that and it can’t do global EQ like the Helix either.

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Well, you do know a guy :)

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Originally Posted by SkizeR

Just. Call. Me.







No homo

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I will. Let me get this crackle issue figured out... Thank you!

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Originally Posted by DavidRam

I will. Let me get this crackle issue figured out... Thank you!

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Like I said.. call me

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Originally Posted by JCsAudio

Um, now I want one of those Helix DSP’s because of that feature. The JL can’t do that and it can’t do global EQ like the Helix either.

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Call me crazy, but the AudioControl units have RTA, maybe not “auto”, but a built in RTA.. Just for shitzengiggles I really want to play with one. Seems like I saw they made some big improvements to them, but I’ve not really researched them. Maybe DSP/amps for the truck, since there’s zero room in that thing.


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Originally Posted by Babs

Call me crazy, but the AudioControl units have RTA, maybe not “auto”, but a built in RTA.. Just for shitzengiggles I really want to play with one. Seems like I saw they made some big improvements to them, but I’ve not really researched them. Maybe DSP/amps for the truck, since there’s zero room in that thing.


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Pretty sure it's only for the input signal, no?

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Originally Posted by SkizeR

Pretty sure it's only for the input signal, no?

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Yeah I think you're right... Might be that DM-RTA thing I was thinking of, which looks like a pretty slick interface/RTA device in itself. Pricey though when a guy could run REW and any $60 interface. But the DM-RTA I think is intended to simplify various signal testing tasks from different sources such as OEM head unit or amp signals etc etc.. Kind of stuff a JL FiX would just "fix" supposedly. You'd most certainly know more about that than I would.

Nick i have tried just about everything to save the cal file. no go for me. Let me know if you have any luck. Great video. This method is exactly how i have been doing it. My only concern was that it may be overriding when doing the final tune (complete grouping). Good confirmation that its not.

That’s pretty cool. I’m definitely going to give this a shot.

I noticed Windows is a PITA when trying to write files into the Audiotech Fischer directory. When I was trying to save EQ targets from REW into it I found the trick was to open whatever software your using (text editor, REW, whatever you want to use to write files in the Audiotech Fischer directory) you can right click and “open as admin”. This will give you the correct permissions to write files within the Audiotech Fischer directory.

I’ve had a Helix DSP.2 for over a year now and was wondering why I’ve never seen anyone use the RTA let alone the auto EQ feature. I was thinking it either didn’t work worth a shit or didn’t work at all.

Looks like it works pretty damn good to me. Excited to try it out!

Thanks for the video even though you snuck it up here weeks ago and made the rest of us Facebook addicted fucks wait.


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Originally Posted by JerryGash

That’s pretty cool. I’m definitely going to give this a shot.

I noticed Windows is a PITA when trying to write files into the Audiotech Fischer directory. When I was trying to save EQ targets from REW into it I found the trick was to open whatever software your using (text editor, REW, whatever you want to use to write files in the Audiotech Fischer directory) you can right click and “open as admin”. This will give you the correct permissions to write files within the Audiotech Fischer directory.

I’ve had a Helix DSP.2 for over a year now and was wondering why I’ve never seen anyone use the RTA let alone the auto EQ feature. I was thinking it either didn’t work worth a shit or didn’t work at all.

Looks like it works pretty damn good to me. Excited to try it out!

Thanks for the video even though you snuck it up here weeks ago and made the rest of us Facebook addicted fucks wait.


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Thanks for the tip. Also, i dont intend on posting this to facebook. See the title.

When you guy's are using this method are you having success above 8-10K with the RTA tuning to your target curve.

I am using a UMK-1 USB mic and it seems to work fine however I am finding the auto eq is not as effective above the 8-10K range and in effect does not cut to the target curve. It sort of bounces between cut and boost between the 7s cycles (Autoeq) and ends up mostly boost to a flat curve as opposed to a trebles downward slope curve that I want.

I am using the mic in 90 degree (orthogonal) mode and copied that calibration file to the cal file as shown.

Just using the RTA manually works well also. REW not really required.

Thoughts and experiences welcome?

I didn't have any issues other than the 17khz up region where my speakers drop off due to their slight off axis orientation.