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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chithead
Those are definitely stunning!
Really like the storage layout too :thumbup:
Thanks!
The storage has been amazing! Way more storage than I had (nearly double)! I used to have 7 of those rubbermaid plastic shelfs that are like $40-$50. They lined both sides of the wall and back area. This design replaced all of those and offered about double the storage, allowed me to use my side door again, and custom made for rubbermaid totes full of camping gear to fit on each shelf! The rubbermaid shelfs only allowed the totes to go on the very top...my back loves the change too.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
No doubt, I may have to steal that idea for the attic over our garage.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
On the last post or all of the posts? Just wanting to know so I know which ones to fix... :banghead:
Edit* May have fixed them. I didn't have those photos in an album, and just made one with them and they appear to show up for me on other browsers....Maybe google photos just needs to be in an album to keep a permanent URL to them.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
It was just post 44 messing up, but it's fixed now
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
I can't see any pictures on post #43.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justin Zazzi
I can't see any pictures on post #43.
Ok, I give...I'll just upload to the forum and use space.....I'll fix them later though.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
This painting has been a nightmare.
I had one speaker nicely done, got a couple sides sanded down and polished to give me a nice glossy finish (it actually looked pretty good minus some scratches that I didn't get out). Then I was sanding one of the other sides and the sandpaper started making some black marks that I then couldn't get out and had to sand off the clear coat. When I was doing this also a chunk of paint came out of that side too......
So I sanded them back to a point where I am satisfied until I can re paint them and get over my frustration. I am thinking the temps played a big role. I have been watching some videos and a bunch of them were saying the rattle cans are fairly susceptible to temp issues if you are trying to get a glossy finish (due to the amount of sanding you will need to do) and the clear coats from the main manufacturers apparently take forever to cure.
My new plan.
1a) Assemble them and just enjoy them until it cools down in Phoenix
1) Sand them down to wood, get some better primer and paint and retry once it is cooler.
I think I am going to use duplicolor this time around. Here is a good video on what I am kind of planning (part 2 of the video)
2) When painting paint outside of my garage so I don't have to spend 3 days cleaning overspray off...stupid move on my part...Got on my motorcycle and RZR as well as my epoxy floor..A lot of scrubbing to get that off.
3) Get a better clear coat product: Spraymax 2k Clear High Gloss
I have been watching a lot of Brad Angove's videos on youtube and his finishes are super nice with rattle cans but he uses that clear coat at a minimum. Here is a video on the differences between the Spraymax 2k clear coat and the krylon or rust oleum clears.
4) Take my time! I was waiting the recommened time between applications and coats, but I was having issues. I think it was a lot due to spraying in too hot of temps.
I think I am going to spray the primer, wait a week or so, spray the color, wait a week or so to get a better cure, then spray the clear coat and wait a while to sand it down.
Some days I wish my OCD and my goals would align better. I am sure plenty would have been happy a long time ago...but I know I am capable of a better outcome so I MUST achieve it......
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
I have a pretty sweet book on wood finishing.
I'll let you know when I'm finished reading it.
:p
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jdunk54nl
For any interested, here are some better picture of the garage storage
This was also pre-selling a bunch of stuff that I realized through this I didn't need anymore.
Excellent work, it turned out very compact!
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
But now you have to put screws in them! Ahhh!
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jdunk54nl
Well, after sanding down and following my plan above, here are the results. Just need to drill the holes and mount all of the stuff tomorrow.
Here is the full album to view if you so desire:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qSjPec945JcQzbsV7
Wow, those look amazing! Nice work, man!
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Need sunglasses to look at those beauties! :cool:
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Been playing around with the dayton audio DSP K and KE board that uses sigma studio (basically free range on what you want to do). The dsp board, from my measuring puts out about 1v rms (scope and DMM) before clipping the outputs from my macbook pro turned up all of the way which outputs like .5v measured by my DMM. This required a input gain of 7db.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...-out--325-1300
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0
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3 Attachment(s)
Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Mutual admiration time... I just made these...
to be assembled, and painted... After painting some other mdf efforts, I used a high build primer on them and allowed a good day to go off between coats and smoothing/next layer... then after thre coats of primer I managed to get a nice enough layer of primer on and then some top coat, high build primer made it easier vs previous efforts with normal primer I think
ya gotta love a bit of diy 🙂
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Those look nice! What are you going to use them for?
Ya, painting MDF is sometimes easy sometimes hard. This was hard due to the want of a high gloss white. There are definitely some imperfections that I could have taken care of, but I was sick of not being able to use these and it got to a point of good enough. I was also starting to do more damage undoing stuff.
I did use the duplicolor high build primer with their brilliant white.
I strongly encourage the use of the spray max clear and will be using it for all of my future projects like this. They have a gloss and a matte. It is a 2 part much like you would do with cars.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jdunk54nl
Those look nice! What are you going to use them for?
Ya, painting MDF is sometimes easy sometimes hard. This was hard due to the want of a high gloss white. There are definitely some imperfections that I could have taken care of, but I was sick of not being able to use these and it got to a point of good enough. I was also starting to do more damage undoing stuff.
I did use the duplicolor high build primer with their brilliant white.
I strongly encourage the use of the spray max clear and will be using it for all of my future projects like this. They have a gloss and a matte. It is a 2 part much like you would do with cars.
I need a reference but if not they will end up in my bedroom as they are considerably bigger with better low end than my Gale gold series monitors I think... I will see what these are like, I will try them off a genny 4 channel I have and a mini dsp, with a bank of super caps and a agm battery I have kicking about from a power supply
i think hi build is essential for mdf as the particulates stay on the surface rather than just soak in like normal watery primer and give the next layer something to bite on to
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Finally tuned these last weekend.
Here are the REW results: I tuned everything for about a 0.6db/oct slope downward. I tuned the sub to be that same level as both speakers playing but then added a low shelf filter as a global eq. Sub is a cheapo polk audio 10" psw110. I use the term sub loosely with this thing... This isn't a room issue. I tried it different spots and same issue with this. I guess I don't need 20-50hz....
Attachment 15252
That was pre-smaart phase aligning too.
Here are the smaart results:
Attachment 15253
The crossover is set to around 130hz. My speakers are 3' 9" from the wall which is conveniently around 80hz-100hz for them...So to get rid of that wall interference, I had to up the crossover higher than I would like. I also tried aligning the crossover region up the best which is about 100hz - 150hz when they speakers are within 10db of each other.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Do you have a trace of all three speakers playing together? How well does that crossover region sum together?
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
I thought I did but apparently didn't save it. I did measure it to make sure I was good and it had the best summation I could get.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jdunk54nl
Finally tuned these last weekend.
Here are the REW results: I tuned everything for about a 0.6db/oct slope downward. I tuned the sub to be that same level as both speakers playing but then added a low shelf filter as a global eq. Sub is a cheapo polk audio 10" psw110. I use the term sub loosely with this thing... This isn't a room issue. I tried it different spots and same issue with this. I guess I don't need 20-50hz....
Attachment 15252
That was pre-smaart phase aligning too.
Here are the smaart results:
Attachment 15253
The crossover is set to around 130hz. My speakers are 3' 9" from the wall which is conveniently around 80hz-100hz for them...So to get rid of that wall interference, I had to up the crossover higher than I would like. I also tried aligning the crossover region up the best which is about 100hz - 150hz when they speakers are within 10db of each other.
do you have all pass filters available in your dsp? If so you can make a way better job of that crossover, the sub has too much delay on it also, flip the phase and it should be a whole lot nicer through the crossover
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Ya I do have all pass somewhere in it. It is an adau 1701 chip ran by sigma studio (Dayton Audio DSP-K). It has everything.
The sub has 0 delay set in the dsp, but on smart it was like 38ms to "Track" it. The other speakers were around 3.5ms to "track" them and I added as much delay as I could without running out of RAM on the dsp chip (500 samples which I am not sure on how many ms that is, but Justin showed me how I can do that). I can't add that much delay.
I also need to do some more tests. This is where I am practicing my smaart skills as it is easier to set everything up in an office compared to my truck :).
Edit* just swtiched to ms instead of samples on the program and left is delayed 12.1042ms and right is delayed 11.6667 ms. Man sigma studio is precise.... I can change the time delay by .0001 ms.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jdunk54nl
Ya I do have all pass somewhere in it. It is an adau 1701 chip ran by sigma studio (Dayton Audio DSP-K). It has everything.
The sub has 0 delay set in the dsp, but on smart it was like 38ms to "Track" it. The other speakers were around 3.5ms to "track" them and I added as much delay as I could without running out of RAM on the dsp chip (500 samples which I am not sure on how many ms that is, but Justin showed me how I can do that). I can't add that much delay.
I also need to do some more tests. This is where I am practicing my smaart skills as it is easier to set everything up in an office compared to my truck :).
Edit* just swtiched to ms instead of samples on the program and left is delayed 12.1042ms and right is delayed 11.6667 ms. Man sigma studio is precise.... I can change the time delay by .0001 ms.
how do you mean track it? You didn’t use different delay locator settings for both drivers or try and match them using the delay locator? It will lock on the peak of the high freqs impulse response, so it does work for similar drivers like mids and tweeters, but a sub vs main alignment I would t use it for... I’d swap the polarity of the sub using a fixed delay inserted and then use the same delay inserted to time the main speakers to it, also use a 2nd order all pass on the sub at 200ish hz with a high q to better align the phase through the crossover after that
it sounds like the mic wasn’t perfectly between the speakers of the delay is slightly different, I must admit if I’m doing a pair of speakers I will measure/move/measure/move the mic until the phase overlays with equal delay if I am setting them up for a centred listening position as a best listening position
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
I tracked/find delay via smaart with the far right speaker and used that number for the rest. I would add time or subtract time in smaart until I could get the best alignment. Then find the difference in the smaart time and appropriately put that into the dsp and check it to make sure.
I tried flipping polarity on the sub but will try it again. Right now it definitely sounds better but can be even better with some more knowledge, so I appreciate the help. If I can get these nailed, then using it on my vehicles will be easier.
I just can’t believe the sub is like 35ms delayed...I expect a little beyond the other, just didn’t expect that. The Dayton amp that is on it must have a lot of delay for some reason...
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
I would start by equing/adjusting the crossovers a little for the two sides to a correct acoustical response for 24db slopes linkwitz Riley with a 150hz crossover point, then see what the phase looks like
if you look at the origin of the subs and tops you can see they are out of phase
you don’t have 35msec of delay on the sub as such, it’s the phase characteristics of the driver/box
i suspect correcting the acoustic responses will make it look smoother, then inverting the phase will allow you to add some delay to the satellites, but take some off the delay finder delay to make it all level again in the display
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4 Attachment(s)
Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Played more today with making sure EQ and the LR 24db slopes at 100hz were nailed prior to doing any phase stuff.
Attachment 15261
Attachment 15262
Attachment 15263
Attachment 15264
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
So flipped polarity and delayed the right and left by about 15.5 ms, which is about my max before my dsp runs out of RAM. The +/- 10db interaction between the sub and the speakers is about 75hz to about 130hz. That was my area that I was most interested in, but got it pretty dang close up until the sub coherence dropped drastically due to output.
@dumdum. thanks for the suggestion on flipping the polarity, this allowed for both slopes of the phase and the value of phase to be lined up pretty well!
This was also a great resource: https://www.merlijnvanveen.nl/en/stu...bsolute-method
Attachment 15265
This was the end results: NOTE THESE MEASUREMENTS WERE TAKEN AT ONE SINGLE POSITION WHERE AS THE ABOVE REW MEASUREMENTS WERE USING MOVING MIC METHOD (MMM). I also did not confirm my mic calibration file was loaded this time.
The red is no sub, the green is sub without global low shelf filter, and the blue is low shelf filter at 100hz.
Attachment 15267
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
If anyone cares, this is the sigma studio programming boards:
Attachment 15268
Attachment 15269
Attachment 15270
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4 Attachment(s)
Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Finally set these speakers up in their place where the original plan was supposed to take them, my classroom. Now all the sound sounds like it is coming directly from that timer on the middle of the desk.
Attachment 16121Attachment 16118Attachment 16119
Note, above two measurements are moving mic measurments. The below measurement is a single point in space, you can see the microphone tip in the first picture, that is the point. I am getting about a 5db average summation across the frequencies too.
Attachment 16120
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
Thinking about getting this for my desktop. Did you happen to look at the Carmody S2000 as well? I'm unsure whether to stick with the smaller S2000 or get the C Note. I kinda like the plywood construction of the S2000.
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Re: PE Cnote Bookshelf Speakers Build
I did not, my goal was to build the cheapest ones I could, and the c-note was it. I was looking at doing this project for an after school club prior to covid and wanted a cheap solution that allowed students to still basically build a speaker.