2019 Toyota Avalon Limtited. Future Plans......

B

BenevolentDictator

Noob
I've made mention of it all over the board thus far and after seeing pics of the NCSQ event for the last 2 years plus Apicella's videos on youtube and countless build logs on here and elsewhere....I figured I would collect all of my thoughts in one space and just post pics of the equipment I chose and bought, Ideas that pop in my head, products I'm eyeballing and lastly PLEASE add input...sans trolling of course. I'm a sponge for info and will consider each idea and each counter to that idea as this process (slowly) creeps along.

There are some hurdles that will be encountered all over this car...the easiest to spot are the fact that I have a fully integrated multimedia area/hvac system that I'd like to maintain the integrity of as well as a trunk area that I'd like to maintain a nice amount of use of so that limits a measure of creativity with the cargo area (amp racks and whatnot)

My overall goal is the ability to listen to well mixed and mastered music on the days where I just want to relax amid the stupidity of driving in the mid Atlantic but also be able to get ridiculous on the days when I want to.

So......here we go.

Ideas:
  1. - Source unit will either be a Fiio M11 or Astell & Kern hi res player which feeds into
  2. - this is where I need help and guidance...would that feed into the dsp or do I need a dac as well or something else that leads into the dsp/amp whatever else
  3. - Wiring...I'm open to ideas as well. I want the most reasonable but effective wiring for this install. I previously used the Focal Elite RCAs in my first build and they were great as far as I could tell....and not horribly priced. May stick with that.
  4. - Going with large drivers in the doors, I'll get into what I've bought later but the why is because kick panels are not an option for me....I'm a 6'4 man that couldn't afford a BigAl vehicle so i bought the largest sedan I could buy. Can't lose the leg room I yearned for.
  5. - Rebuilt a pillars are what I'd like with aiming....preferably not so driver focused that a passenger or passengers won't enjoy the sound as well....but I would like it to be time aligned and whatnot. I was thinking 1 inch tweets and initially 4.5 inch midranges but I'm down for 3 inchers as well....those SI carbons are looking sexy but if not those than I am eyeballing some Scanspeak 12mu 4.5 mids
  6. - Rear fill.....should I or shouldn't I? If I should then should I do like others and just try to optimize the factory JBL speakers or replace them with something else entirely?
  7. - Amplification....I've been salivating over a Z-150.6 AP from Zapco (price be damned) for my front stage and if I do go with #6 then a zapco 4 channel for that and i already own a Wolfram 3k that I plan to run my sub stage on at full potential. (1 ohm at a tested 3,434 watts)
  8. - Processing....Either Helix or Zapco...I'm not sure. Help is welcome.
  9. - Deadening - Resonix.
  10. - and of course, big 3....AGM battery and Singer alternator
  11. - Sub stage....I'm dreaming of the HST-11s from SI as the apex of my choices. I want my low end to be able to get violent on those days that I need to decompress. I don't smoke, drink or engage in f*ckery so my release has always been aggressive music and like BigAl said in his video....when I need a massage chair, it's available.:D I've also looked at the Hutchinson ETAs and CSS SDX 12s (all of these would be in 2s)

What I own

  1. SB Acoustics Satori 9.5 woofer
  2. ​Wolfram 3k



That list will continue to grow as I update this over the next few months. Thanks for reading all of this foolishness. I appreciate what you guys have been sharing/teaching and what is to come.


 
BenevolentDictator said:
Ideas:
  1. - Source unit will either be a Fiio M11 or Astell & Kern hi res player which feeds into
  2. - this is where I need help and guidance...would that feed into the dsp or do I need a dac as well or something else that leads into the dsp/amp whatever else
  3. - Wiring...I'm open to ideas as well. I want the most reasonable but effective wiring for this install. I previously used the Focal Elite RCAs in my first build and they were great as far as I could tell....and not horribly priced. May stick with that.
  4. - Going with large drivers in the doors, I'll get into what I've bought later but the why is because kick panels are not an option for me....I'm a 6'4 man that couldn't afford a BigAl vehicle so i bought the largest sedan I could buy. Can't lose the leg room I yearned for.
  5. - Rebuilt a pillars are what I'd like with aiming....preferably not so driver focused that a passenger or passengers won't enjoy the sound as well....but I would like it to be time aligned and whatnot. I was thinking 1 inch tweets and initially 4.5 inch midranges but I'm down for 3 inchers as well....those SI carbons are looking sexy but if not those than I am eyeballing some Scanspeak 12mu 4.5 mids
  6. - Rear fill.....should I or shouldn't I? If I should then should I do like others and just try to optimize the factory JBL speakers or replace them with something else entirely?
  7. - Amplification....I've been salivating over a Z-150.6 AP from Zapco (price be damned) for my front stage and if I do go with #6 then a zapco 4 channel for that and i already own a Wolfram 3k that I plan to run my sub stage on at full potential. (1 ohm at a tested 3,434 watts)
  8. - Processing....Either Helix or Zapco...I'm not sure. Help is welcome.
  9. - Deadening - Resonix.
  10. - and of course, big 3....AGM battery and Singer alternator
  11. - Sub stage....I'm dreaming of the HST-11s from SI as the apex of my choices. I want my low end to be able to get violent on those days that I need to decompress. I don't smoke, drink or engage in f*ckery so my release has always been aggressive music and like BigAl said in his video....when I need a massage chair, it's available.:D I've also looked at the Hutchinson ETAs and CSS SDX 12s (all of these would be in 2s)
Click to expand...

1 & 2. Get with bertholomey, naiku, or Michael Myers (audiophile25) on this
3. Wiring has a point of diminishing returns. I wouldn't go cheap, nor would I go uber-high end. Maybe Stinger or Knukoncepts
4. I can't afford it either :hmm:. If you can't get a larger driver in the front, you might consider putting it in the rear door. Below around 80hz, it's hard to tell where a sound is coming from.
5.
6. On rear fill, you'll get 15 different people giving 40 different opinions. I say go for it...if you don't like it, you can always mute those channels.
7.
8. Helix FTMFW
9.
10. Do what you want, but I think it's a waste of money unless you're doing an SPL vehicle. I'm running 2 Mosconi AS 200.4 and a SounDigital 3000.1 off the factory alt and ground wires with no issues at all. I am running a second battery, but that's just so I can demo longer without worries.
11. :amen:
 
Thanks for all of that feedback Al. I will reach out to those guys and get some input on what they think may work best.

Wiring...yeah I'm not trying to go PSound crazy on wiring where it's a couple of grand for it and all of that but I have been eyeballing Knuconceptz and Stinger's higher end stuff.

I thought of doing those massive drivers in the rear and just maybe going with some of the standards that I've seen guys rave about or maybe even another direction. Thanks for that input, I guess I was worried that if I placed some heavy hitters in the back for kick it may get drowned out by the subs at full tilt. It's a work in progress. I was intrigued by the W800 neos but that price makes my eyes water.

I think I'm going to embrace rear fill.

Lol....yeah I like what i've seen and heard about Helix as well. Still trying to learn about it

Maybe just big 3 then? Make sure my grounds are excellent and try that first.....if it looks like my electrical is struggling then I'll make the call.



BigAl205 said:
1 & 2. Get with bertholomey, naiku, or Michael Myers (audiophile25) on this
3. Wiring has a point of diminishing returns. I wouldn't go cheap, nor would I go uber-high end. Maybe Stinger or Knukoncepts
4. I can't afford it either :hmm:. If you can't get a larger driver in the front, you might consider putting it in the rear door. Below around 80hz, it's hard to tell where a sound is coming from.
5.
6. On rear fill, you'll get 15 different people giving 40 different opinions. I say go for it...if you don't like it, you can always mute those channels.
7.
8. Helix FTMFW
9.
10. Do what you want, but I think it's a waste of money unless you're doing an SPL vehicle. I'm running 2 Mosconi AS 200.4 and a SounDigital 3000.1 off the factory alt and ground wires with no issues at all. I am running a second battery, but that's just so I can demo longer without worries.
11. :amen:
Click to expand...
 
1. Also check with Truthunter (Ryan), since he owns a Toyota he should have some insight.
2. I believe most hi-rez players have a built in DAC, but the folks BigAl mentions would know better.
4. I got a smokin deal on some AD W800Neos and love them, but my installer also recommends Morel MW9's, so worth looking into and probably easier to find.
5. I have both tweets & mids in my pillars and can say that while they sound great overall, there is some localization and stage width issues. BigAls truck, Mike Meyers Subaru & Ryans Camry all have very similar installs in that their mids fire up into the windshield and tweeters are either just off-axis firing at the head position or in MM's case firing into the windshield itself... these arrangements seem to lessen the two issues I have.
6. Rear fill is a personal preference and needs to be setup correctly otherwise its just a couple of speakers in the rear deck... :) I have it in my car at the suggestion of my installer, and it adds width to the front stage as weird as that sounds.
7. Love me some Zapco A/B amps! There are of course other brands, but IMHO, class D amps seem to have a slight compression to the sound, but everyone hears things differently.
8. I've owned Helix processors in the past and can recommend them as being easy to tune with. Having heard what Ryan & Bertholomey/AfghanVet/Jason were able to accomplish using the miniDSP with DiracLive... I'll just say that DSP is a step above in what it can do.
9. Do the best deadening job you can without going overboard... if you find rattles later on, they can be addressed at that time.
10. Big 3 can be worth it if you are doing alot of ground-pounding, but just a good battery will suffice for most SQ stuff.
11. I've had great results with Acoustic Elegance subs, the key is to make sure that whatever alignment you choose, make sure the baffle/enclosure is SECURELY mounted to the vehicle... did I mention SECURELY? :)
 
Thanks mumbles....your car looked awesome btw, I'm upset I didn't get that chance to see it in person and most importantly, hear it in person, this past weekend. Hopefully in the future if the world isn't smoldering.

1. I will definitely get up with Truthunter as well, I took a look at his build log a few weeks ago.
4. I was looking at the Morels as well....but I went with those monster Satoris and I'm not looking forward to what the repercussions of that choice will be....on the flip, it might sound epic as well. I'm hoping for the latter. I wish I could finally hear those ADs...everyone just raves.
5. Ugh...that's what I'm afraid of but I'm also wondering if me being such a newcomer to this side of car audio and not having the type of listening experience will cause me to not even catch the flaws in my car....I guess we'll see. I thought about using the factory midrange locations in my car but it's always looked as though the rebuilt a pillar route was the way to go to avoid reflection. The stock mids can get bright/sharp if I turn them up too high.
6. Yeah I'm thinking I may go with rear fill...now the question is...should I just do the 2 inches in the rear deck or do the whole shebang and toss the component set up in the rear doors into the mix as well?
7. Yeah I'm dead set on the Zapco I mentioned. It just seems to make sense in every way.
8. I need to look more into the miniDSP. Thanks for that insight.
9. Will do. I learned from my last install about overkill. I did an IB install and sealed my trunk like a tomb. It kind of worked but that's another fail story for another day.
10. Considering where my head has been going today with what I've learned from JCsaudio (forgive me if I misspelled your username) doing the simulation for me, I may have to upgrade everything lol.
11. I LOVE Ron Baker's build that I saw on Nick's youtube channel at Finals but i'm not sure I have the juevos to greenlight my rear deck being carved up. I want what he has though if I'm being frank lol.

Thank you again for the added insight.


mumbles said:
1. Also check with Truthunter (Ryan), since he owns a Toyota he should have some insight.
2. I believe most hi-rez players have a built in DAC, but the folks BigAl mentions would know better.
4. I got a smokin deal on some AD W800Neos and love them, but my installer also recommends Morel MW9's, so worth looking into and probably easier to find.
5. I have both tweets & mids in my pillars and can say that while they sound great overall, there is some localization and stage width issues. BigAls truck, Mike Meyers Subaru & Ryans Camry all have very similar installs in that their mids fire up into the windshield and tweeters are either just off-axis firing at the head position or in MM's case firing into the windshield itself... these arrangements seem to lessen the two issues I have.
6. Rear fill is a personal preference and needs to be setup correctly otherwise its just a couple of speakers in the rear deck... :) I have it in my car at the suggestion of my installer, and it adds width to the front stage as weird as that sounds.
7. Love me some Zapco A/B amps! There are of course other brands, but IMHO, class D amps seem to have a slight compression to the sound, but everyone hears things differently.
8. I've owned Helix processors in the past and can recommend them as being easy to tune with. Having heard what Ryan & Bertholomey/AfghanVet/Jason were able to accomplish using the miniDSP with DiracLive... I'll just say that DSP is a step above in what it can do.
9. Do the best deadening job you can without going overboard... if you find rattles later on, they can be addressed at that time.
10. Big 3 can be worth it if you are doing alot of ground-pounding, but just a good battery will suffice for most SQ stuff.
11. I've had great results with Acoustic Elegance subs, the key is to make sure that whatever alignment you choose, make sure the baffle/enclosure is SECURELY mounted to the vehicle... did I mention SECURELY? :)
Click to expand...
 
BenevolentDictator said:
Thanks mumbles....your car looked awesome btw, I'm upset I didn't get that chance to see it in person and most importantly, hear it in person, this past weekend. Hopefully in the future if the world isn't smoldering.

1. I will definitely get up with Truthunter as well, I took a look at his build log a few weeks ago.
4. I was looking at the Morels as well....but I went with those monster Satoris and I'm not looking forward to what the repercussions of that choice will be....on the flip, it might sound epic as well. I'm hoping for the latter. I wish I could finally hear those ADs...everyone just raves.
5. Ugh...that's what I'm afraid of but I'm also wondering if me being such a newcomer to this side of car audio and not having the type of listening experience will cause me to not even catch the flaws in my car....I guess we'll see. I thought about using the factory midrange locations in my car but it's always looked as though the rebuilt a pillar route was the way to go to avoid reflection. The stock mids can get bright/sharp if I turn them up too high.
6. Yeah I'm thinking I may go with rear fill...now the question is...should I just do the 2 inches in the rear deck or do the whole shebang and toss the component set up in the rear doors into the mix as well?
7. Yeah I'm dead set on the Zapco I mentioned. It just seems to make sense in every way.
8. I need to look more into the miniDSP. Thanks for that insight.
9. Will do. I learned from my last install about overkill. I did an IB install and sealed my trunk like a tomb. It kind of worked but that's another fail story for another day.
10. Considering where my head has been going today with what I've learned from JCsaudio (forgive me if I misspelled your username) doing the simulation for me, I may have to upgrade everything lol.
11. I LOVE Ron Baker's build that I saw on Nick's youtube channel at Finals but i'm not sure I have the juevos to greenlight my rear deck being carved up. I want what he has though if I'm being frank lol.

Thank you again for the added insight.
Click to expand...

No problem on the insight... glad to help (if I did :D)

Let me say this about Truthunters install... it looks completely factory, everything hidden, but when you listen to it... OMG! No boundaries, sound is waaay outside the side windows and just open. After hearing it, my first inclination was, what was the phrase everyone was using... oh yeah... drive my car off a cliff and set it on fire! Ryans car is THAT good.

The point of my rambling is that looking at the Avalon interior, you have very similar locations to Ryans Camry. A decent set of 3 or 4 inch mids in the stock dash locations firing up into the windshield, and then a decent set of 1-ish inch tweets in the pillar locations should yield and excellent stage. If you can angle the tweets to point more towards the listening position and less to towards the center it would be even better... and finally if you wanted to mess with the pillars, you could move the tweeters near where the sail panels are or even in the sail panels if you can. Put a towel on each side of the dash and set the tweeters there... listen to a couple of your favorite songs and mess with the angle of the tweeters until it sounds the best and that should be your install target. Hope this helps some!
 
Update....thinking of flipping my Wolfram 3k for a 5k.....to feed the SIs proper power for the days of pavement cracking. Running dual 2/0 power runs to that amp from the upgraded AGM and alternator I have in the works along with a 450 amp ANL fuse that I've sourced from a place I bought my last fuses from in Annapolis.

Also I feel like I've finally settled on my rear woofer setup...going to go with the Anarchy 7 inches for the doors and Audiofrog 2.5 inches for the rear deck replacement. May shirk the rear tweeters but I'll keep deciding on that. I want the sound to be massive.
 
So I think I've given up on this being a true SQ build. I had to be honest with myself about what I listen to on a daily basis just with my stock system and while I definitely appreciate what you guys do and are doing, it just doesn't seem feasible that I'll be able to pull it off and be satisfied given my choice of music. That being said, I'm just going to refocus on making sure I have plenty of impact without leaning too far into the absurd and ensuring that I am giving good, clean signal and receiving good clean power to all of my components.

Update on plans for speakers and speakers purchased:
1. I've ordered the Anarchy 7 inch woofers and they should be en route soon...those will be in the rear doors
2. I believe I'm going to go with the SI 3 inch mids for both my front stage and rear fill stock locations.....
3. Adding a 4 channel zapco to the list to power just the rear components
4. Lastly, hope the universe doesn't s*it on these ideas and make me look foolish.

The odyssey continues.
 
Just received my AD W800neos from Bdssoundjunk and they were in excellent condition so thank you to him. Those will replace my recently returned Satoris for front stage and I'm eyeballing some Audison Voce 3.0 for my midrange replacement in my dash...they are a great price on woofersetc for a pair.

Also believe that I'm going to by some Beryllium SB Acoustics for my tweeter replacement so steps are being taken.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...-c000-4-29mm-beryllium-dome-tweeter-w/grille/

After those purchases, next up are the SI HST- 11s then amplification. :thumbup::thumbup::blah::blah:
 
So, a couple of updates for those that give a f*ck beyond me. I just received my 2 planets....I mean HST-11s in the mail yesterday so that made an otherwise shit week pretty cool for a few hours so thanks to Nick for that. I've been wanting these since I bought the 15 years ago because I thought it would be dope to have small but beefy woofers pumping out a ton of low end. I'm glad I've gone with his company yet again even though these have the gravitational field of the moons of Saturn. That being said....here are pics to keep this interesting.

Tweeters are next....then I work on the mountainous debt soon to be caused by amplification. I've since decided after help from some guys here that I'll do 2 4 channel zapcos (1 bridged to 2) my oft discussed Wolfram 5k and zapco processing. Huzzah.:banghead:

View attachment 15096View attachment 15097
 
BenevolentDictator said:
So, a couple of updates for those that give a f*ck beyond me. I just received my 2 planets....I mean HST-11s in the mail yesterday so that made an otherwise shit week pretty cool for a few hours so thanks to Nick for that. I've been wanting these since I bought the 15 years ago because I thought it would be dope to have small but beefy woofers pumping out a ton of low end. I'm glad I've gone with his company yet again even though these have the gravitational field of the moons of Saturn. That being said....here are pics to keep this interesting.

Tweeters are next....then I work on the mountainous debt soon to be caused by amplification. I've since decided after help from some guys here that I'll do 2 4 channel zapcos (1 bridged to 2) my oft discussed Wolfram 5k and zapco processing. Huzzah.:banghead:

View attachment 15096View attachment 15097
Click to expand...
Holy s***, those look bad ass
 
Kinda wish I tossed two of those subs into my camry...
As far as the DSP, and I am by no means an expert on this, I believe what most do is run the player straight to the DSP, either via BT or USB- I know Helix has a module just for this, the USB-HEC, although I also believe it's ~200$- I see the grey market sellers have the USB-HEC's for 155 ish.

My vote for DSP would be for Helix- the software is insanely great, I am not fond of Zapco's. I would download the software and see what suits you better. I know SkiZeR has/had videos on his youtube regarding the Helix DSP features with dobslob...
 
Thanks Yoda, I'm curious as to why you aren't fond of Zapco's equipment...Helix is (obviously) on my radar and has been since the beginning of this equipment collection journey but I was trying to look into the zap stuff as well.
Do you have a build log of yours that I can look at? I feel like I may have seen it before but I'm not sure.


Turb0Yoda said:
Kinda wish I tossed two of those subs into my camry...
As far as the DSP, and I am by no means an expert on this, I believe what most do is run the player straight to the DSP, either via BT or USB- I know Helix has a module just for this, the USB-HEC, although I also believe it's ~200$- I see the grey market sellers have the USB-HEC's for 155 ish.

My vote for DSP would be for Helix- the software is insanely great, I am not fond of Zapco's. I would download the software and see what suits you better. I know SkiZeR has/had videos on his youtube regarding the Helix DSP features with dobslob...
Click to expand...
 
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