good distortion:

[cajunner]

ah, something of a paradox, huh?

good distortion.

we love it, when we hear it. It's all around us, it is inserted into our tunes in small incalculable amounts by the producers and the engineers, and the artists themselves.

I'm no angel, I like to hear the crazy and I've blown speakers to be in the crazy, if you know what I mean.

So, this thread is dedicated to those of us who not only pursue the highest ends of sonic reproduction perfection, but to the rest of us, who won't admit it on a gentlemen's level, (sorry ladies, just a little poetic license) on a public board, that distortion sometimes, is the cat's knees.

Now, I have been infiltrated by distortion from the earliest age, listening to both good and bad examples of it, obviously we can't return to all my former experiences but I'll note a couple of points here, that may make some of this thread worthwhile to some of you.

The day came when I stepped into a friend's truck and there were 4 JBL T-545 speakers, in boxes behind the rear seat, and yes it was bare metal and hard-board seat back, so no attenuation at all. Powered by an Alphasonik A-2125, it was probably pushing near 100 watts per speaker into 2 ohms, so it was being taxed.

driving the source, an Alpine cassette, going through a dinky LOC, (key component here) and into a 3015 computerized eq.

so, I always wondered what made that system so freaking loud. I realize now, that without subs, and using a cheap LOC, there was little output below say, 70 hz.

I think that LOC introduced that "good distortion" in the same way that Klipsch products using autoformers for their crossover level matching, also have that "sound" that may not be exactly high fidelity, but it sure is fun....

there was a synergy in that system, from the cassette limitations, to the voltage step-down, to the 3015's "auto-levelizer" or whatever it was called, (actually has a mic on the unit, and test tone button) to the amp's 2 ohm increased current load, that ended up sounding like the music was almost tactile, like you could put your hand in it and feel something...


anyways, the treatise is that creating good distortion is an art for the 'production' side of the music, but there is a place for the 'reproduction' side as well.

any input, Aphex Exciters or MaxxWaves or whatever, BBE and other artifact producing devices, all welcome.

let's debate the other side for a bit, step out of Klippel plateaus and reading the fine print on speaker parameters. Even the tube kind of distortion belongs, after all, it's running through that output transformer iron that gives it that special flavor.

experiments where people have run LOC to tube amp, or other additive combinations, are what we are looking for, here.

consider this the freak call, if you can't stand the sound of wild horses trampling your speakers then you can visit, but don't stay too long...

[PaulD]

BBE is a device that introduces 2nd harmonic distortion. The military figured out a LONG time ago that adding 2nd order harmonic distortion increases voice intelligibilty.

[cajunner]

BBE is a device that introduces 2nd harmonic distortion. The military figured out a LONG time ago that adding 2nd order harmonic distortion increases voice intelligibilty.

I didn't know this. I assumed the phase shifting at 400 hz, was done with an all-pass analog filter, and the Lo-Contour circuit "put back" some of the lost bass, for what reason I don't know, but I am aware that this is necessary, just like the MS-8 and the old Fosgate Gavotte, among others. They have an automatic "bass-recombiner" circuit because of what happens when they implement their various circuits.

It may be that the second-order distortion is a natural consequence of this time-delay shifting of the phase, I would like to know more because there are times when BBE sounds pretty good, even if long term, it can become fatiguing.

Maybe someone can put one on their analyzer, or their analyzer program, RightMark or whatever, and see what the distortion is doing when activating the circuit. I think a couple of you here have the capability, I don't.... then this place would have something DIYMA doesn't have, hahah...

some old school DIYMA type shit.

[PaulD]

I used to have a BBE box on the 90's, when I started getting engine noise I tracked it back to it. When I took the top off, I found out why. The power supply and signal grounds were grounded to the same point on the chassis. Ohms of isolation = 0.

[TheBaronGroog]

Distortion makes it sound louder, like cars with poor grip feel like you're doing 60mph and sliding the car in a corner when you're only doing 30mph...

[Hi-FiDelity]

Distortion makes it sound louder, like cars with poor grip feel like you're doing 60mph and sliding the car in a corner when you're only doing 30mph...

Exactly. That why a pure SPL system with some distortion sounds louder than a SQ at the same level.

[chad]

Many equate distortion with "loud," my ex wife was one of them. I'd come home to the walls of my home caving in and it "was not loud." Tossed a Dynaco stereo 70 in the rig as opposed to a larger pro amp... Bingo, loud as fuck to her, walls and windows in tact.

Happened to a lot of the sound guys my age an older coming from way-old rigs to rigs that were much lower in distortion. I'll admit to mixing om my first Meyer rig and being ungodly loud. Ears never rang so hard after soundcheck as they did that night.

For the record I only found one good use for one BBE box... It was mono and had an instrument level input and a balanced XLR line output. I liked it as an acoustic guitar front end, and only if the acoustic had a preamp or a buffer off of just a pickup.

[cajunner]

so, musing on this topic has taken the hiatus.. but necro farts are still farts.

I was wondering if it was possible to engineer the distortion that makes sound levels deceptively loud, in the minute quantities required such that one could achieve a goal of consistently lower decibel thresholds while losing nothing on the detail/air/coherence word charm-sets?

I don't mean emulate poor speakers distorting, if that's what first forehead smack felt like, move past that into new, niche-ready science, could someone want the same distortion that comes from the artist's side, arrive earlier in playback level and filled with "euphonic" layers, smoothly applied?

I could see this as a possible, just because I worry about long-term hearing loss, and I worry about general relativity in noise pollution scales. If one generally cranks the knob while inebriated, this circuit mimicry could make one mildly less obnoxious at a distance, neighbors being neighborly...

and some investigation into why the louder system is almost always the more fun system, and returning to "slightly louder than stock" but doing so where everything the stock system sucked at was improved, on a perceptual level that makes one open a wallet and sit in the drive with a cheesy grin, all the hallmarks, buzzwords, of clipping distortion ( if that is "euphonic", should there be tests...) at 10 db lower, 20 db lower, get the picture?

I had some of this savory unsavoriness, back in the mid-eighties when introduced to the Alphasonik/Visonik line of drivers, HiFonics, all West German manufactures with plastic dome tweeter, and felt cone woofers, each using large magnet structure, I think EPI emulated those ADS separates, it was a style... would get reasonably loud but it was a pleasant distortion...

I wouldn't mind returning to that design preference, but I want to incorporate all methods of increasing the euphoria using adjustable distortion shelf controls until a perfect storm of what works is maximized and low-IQ persons are minimized, at an acceptable pleasure-inducing trigger of decibels.

Of course, one would have to proficient in all audio disciplines should they undertake this project alone, so that's why we need help from the audience, Speaker Engineers, Amp Designers, world-class listener talent, all working inside their proportional spheres, such that we could formulate a basic recipe at first, then deviate and dilate, even go as far as breaking new ground, multi-faceted distortion analogues, names...

circuits of a distorting nature, pushing those crazy happy tingly neuronal synaptic revelries, until there can be nothing greater, thought of...

[Hic]

Even Order distortion is "All That" , buy tube amps. !

[cajunner]

with respect to the cadre of tube guys out there promoting their 2nd order love, I suspect there is probably more going on when the sweet sound comes around, than simply an introduction of soft clip that has 2nd order harmonics as a part of it. I believe it goes much deeper, with ringing in the iron coming and going at various intensities and orders such that it's not just 2nd order but some conglomeration of hysteresis, within the transformer that is active and variable which is why one needs special parts, (Bob Carver and the emulation of Audio Research?) and tools to control the phenomenon, if we are to extract the euphoric.