claydo's rebuild log..........

[Babs]

Why the dip at 3k and heavy roll off at 20khz?


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[cajunner]

sorry to butt in without so much as a howdy do here in the claydo quizzical, but it appears there is some resistance to the apl crunch possibly due to incredulity? It would appear that Raimonds has approached the art of sound manipulation in-car with some finer controls than was previously offered in retail guise, or in the less than professional, consumer based market. Is the resistance coming from a language barrier, then? I seem to believe the apl1 is doing new things, without hearing it. More so than product previous, like BBE processing or other, closer to "gimmick" status.

If it was something Zapco developed, or a home audio guru name like Levinson, or at least American know-how that reduces the mid-bass singularity of phase upheaval, right in the "Schroeder" transition area, I think people would have accepted it, like the MS-8 was accepted, in the cadre of obsessives that make up our hobby schematic.

I can't help but feel like there's some kind of missing link, or linkage that would marry the apl1 with multi-channel Dolby-esque sound-scapes, to produce an even more gelled surround show, but it's almost overkill, such a thought...

I'm pretty happy about how this technology is being presented, with a claydo operator atop the parade float, bringing in the goods. Makes me want to pick one up each time I run over this thread.

[Hic]

Why the dip at 3k and heavy roll off at 20khz?


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the Science of Hearing - SIMON HEATHER

3 khz - 4 khz is range where human hearing is ' sensitive '.

I cannot even hear up to 20,000 hz , let alone above it. Can you hear " higher than that "?

Dog whistles go from 23khz - 54khz , think hissing sound !

[claydo]

Why the dip at 3k and heavy roll off at 20khz?


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Personal preference my friend! 3k is grating to my ears if not backed off, and a system without top end roll-off sounds too bright to me with anything other than reference material. This curve was position "3" on the apl dial, if you demoed position "0" it had slightly less dip at 3k, and less roll-off up top, and a lot lower midbass response, but with anything less than reference quality recordings, was just way too bright for my ears. So "0" was more of a competition curve, bringing out nice detail and not over emphasizing the bass, on great recordings, and "3" was a more typical "daily tune, for varying music and recording quality. Remember I'm just an old metal head at heart, and my daily listening reflects that. I only listen to "essque" type music when I'm in the mood.

[claydo]

sorry to butt in without so much as a howdy do here in the claydo quizzical, but it appears there is some resistance to the apl crunch possibly due to incredulity? It would appear that Raimonds has approached the art of sound manipulation in-car with some finer controls than was previously offered in retail guise, or in the less than professional, consumer based market. Is the resistance coming from a language barrier, then? I seem to believe the apl1 is doing new things, without hearing it. More so than product previous, like BBE processing or other, closer to "gimmick" status.

If it was something Zapco developed, or a home audio guru name like Levinson, or at least American know-how that reduces the mid-bass singularity of phase upheaval, right in the "Schroeder" transition area, I think people would have accepted it, like the MS-8 was accepted, in the cadre of obsessives that make up our hobby schematic.

I can't help but feel like there's some kind of missing link, or linkage that would marry the apl1 with multi-channel Dolby-esque sound-scapes, to produce an even more gelled surround show, but it's almost overkill, such a thought...

I'm pretty happy about how this technology is being presented, with a claydo operator atop the parade float, bringing in the goods. Makes me want to pick one up each time I run over this thread.

Was sup caj, long time no see my friend! Glad I got a fresh cajunner post to re-read a time or two to catch it all...lol! I believe you're correct in the assumption about the source of the apl goodies, it wasn't until I compiled a lot of research and reports of relationships with known companies that I could make a healthy (to me anyways) investment in a seemingly one man operation out of Latvia. Turns out Raimonds is a helluva guy, and his company is turning out some quality gear and software who's performance has met my frightfully high expectations.....his communication is always quick, is eagar to help, and other than the slight language barrier, is usually directly on point. Once you get over the software hurdles, this thing is slick in its design and execution, and produced excellent results.....for me. System tuning was such a time eating affair since I adopted all of the software based measurement systems, and this system simplifies the hell out of it, or at least the hardest part of it, the eq. That alone is sweet enough for me to love, so the secret sauce of the phase correction is simply gravy on top of an already great idea.....after hearing it at work, I think that gravy part of the equation has become the meat and potatoes of the conversation.....because that's the main thing missing from the dsp market, simplified phase correction that works.....in this case built in automatically.....to coin a new phrase.......auto-phase....noice.

[claydo]

I cannot even hear up to 20,000 hz , let alone above it. Can you hear " higher than that "?

Dog whistles go from 23khz - 54khz , think hissing sound !

I have to agree here, I don't hear much at all above 16k......but, I will admit to hearing a change when rolling off the top vs. not........knowing my hearing in this area is not ideal, I can't explain why it makes a difference......

[cajunner]

doin' like I'm doing, is how I word my physical existence, haha...

nice to hear you've come into the "early adopter" status with such ease, such grace, lol... I do enjoy your committed stance, as herald... what I'm seeing is that the apl1 does things, things that only the "black box" engineering types used to be able to do, in the car audio superiority gambit.

and that's pretty phenomenal, me thinks.

soon Raimonds will step into the ring as a first-place contender in the "curve fixer" analogy, if it isn't apparent already.

I was intrigued when it was first presented, several years now? And every new build with it seems to glow with the appraisals, so...

anyways, good to see you making new headway, the new plow-share turns "more dirt" as the field lays in wait.

[cajunner]

Personal preference my friend! 3k is grating to my ears if not backed off, and a system without top end roll-off sounds too bright to me with anything other than reference material. This curve was position "3" on the apl dial, if you demoed position "0" it had slightly less dip at 3k, and less roll-off up top, and a lot lower midbass response, but with anything less than reference quality recordings, was just way too bright for my ears. So "0" was more of a competition curve, bringing out nice detail and not over emphasizing the bass, on great recordings, and "3" was a more typical "daily tune, for varying music and recording quality. Remember I'm just an old metal head at heart, and my daily listening reflects that. I only listen to "essque" type music when I'm in the mood.

that's exactly how I feel, man.. I set my system to present a tangible, not intangible quality, haha... seems like it's almost having to apologize, to prefer the more aggressive dip at 3K and swing-down up high, I think because of average listening level making the tweeters de-emphasize, it's a given that you have an addiction to higher output.

It's always been a necessity, I think one of the reasons I love the Aura MR series so much is their built-in 3K dip, even if their max output is a little less than some of the high end product.

What comes across as "really loud" is usually fatiguing over the longer haul, based on too much output in our "sensitive" region. Probably because it's so easy to ride over an amp's clipping threshold, except in the case of obsessed "headroom" ess-que, where the manufacturer wattage recommendations are laughed at, haha...

[claydo]

Werd, I definitely lean towards higher listening levels, so my curve preferences are going to reflect that. Without the cut at 3k, my "rock out" levels, when the mood hits, wouldn't be sustainable for me for very long. The top end roll off is more based on material than volume tho, like I said before with pristine recordings a shallower rolloff is fine but with some thin lizzy, iron Maiden, or Ronnie James dio cued up, and playing at "11", bringing out the details of the below average recording is not preferred......lol.

[cajunner]

Werd, I definitely lean towards higher listening levels, so my curve preferences are going to reflect that. Without the cut at 3k, my "rock out" levels, when the mood hits, wouldn't be sustainable for me for very long. The top end roll off is more based on material than volume tho, like I said before with pristine recordings a shallower rolloff is fine but with some thin lizzy, iron Maiden, or Ronnie James dio cued up, and playing at "11", bringing out the details of the below average recording is not preferred......lol.

smart.

knowing our limitations, as they say.

even if it brands us as habitual offenders of the church of audiophilia, I submit that life is short, and the open road is a conduit enhanced by metal, haha...