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Thread: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10???

  1. Back To Top    #41

    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    Beware that passive radiators should be mounted vertically to prevent sag, due to their comparatively high mass, depending on the amount of weight added for tuning.

  2. Back To Top    #42

    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
    Beware that passive radiators should be mounted vertically to prevent sag, due to their comparatively high mass, depending on the amount of weight added for tuning.
    This would be a fun topic for a separate thread.

    I believe that's largely one of those "back in the day" myths that perpetuates exclusively because that "...depending on how much weight you add!" has no upper weight limit, so it sounds true.

    Back in the day, PRs were just speakers designed to be speakers - they just removed the motors and added mass as desired. Those suspensions often weren't even designed to avoid sag when NOT used as PRs...

    I recall in a discussion when Cerwin Vega's Stoker sub was released, how the center adjustment device was really an antique patent, that CV decided to pull out again because the Stroker had such high mass and higher suspension compliance than most SPL subs.

    Today though, even the PRs that are still built like "speakers without motors" benefit both from modern materials and a broader range of Cms values available - though I'm sure there's some where this is still true, just like there's still some woofers where this is true.

    And the main point really, that I almost forgot to get back to - weight. With most purpose-built PRs today, you wouldn't need to add much, if any weight at all... and even with added mass you've still got a more practical mass-to-compliance ratio.

    I'm finally getting around to building my sealed and PR boxes for my JBL GTi 12 and JL W7 12, but I'm likely not going to be able to really try them out for a while.

    Here's an interesting look at these PRs though, and their specs. I was intrigued because they seem well built - I love that they come with some mass, and I can actually adjust mass in either direction if needed, based on how they are built.

    (Edit: I'll have to try to add other pics another way - Tapatalk app only lets you add 1, so here's the specs)

    Edit: added pics -
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    Last edited by geolemon; 05-04-2020 at 08:32 AM. Reason: Added pics

  3. Back To Top    #43
    Noob Ge0's Avatar
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    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    Quote Originally Posted by JCsAudio View Post
    Which drivers and size are you seriously considering (top 2) to use?
    I'm starting with a single JL 10TW3 to see if that satisfies me. If not, I'll cut another hole and try two SD4's or something similar like the Audiomobiles.

    Ge0
    Scanspeak - Dynaudio - Helix - Bose

  4. Back To Top    #44

    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ge0 View Post
    I'm starting with a single JL 10TW3 to see if that satisfies me. If not, I'll cut another hole and try two SD4's or something similar like the Audiomobiles.

    Ge0
    I don't want to drag your thread off topic - but I remember some epic forum battles between Matt Overpeck and Dan Wiggins... I'm clearly biased because I am fully "team XBL^2", licensed it in the early 00s myself...
    ...but always regretted not buying at least one of the Audiomobile 12s to compare them to my other reference subs.

    I forget now even if the Audiomobile were long-coil overhung, or short-coil underhung...
    Do you recall?
    Either way, I recall they were still more linear (cleaner) than the average sub, but still subject to the traditional design trade-offs that XBL^2 aimed to mitigate.

    Did you buy them in the Matt Overpeck days ('00s)? Or I see there's been a rebirth again, recently (same with Adire's car branch, interestingly enough )...

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

  5. Back To Top    #45
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    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    Ok that changes how I was thinking about this, as I was thinking you were just going to build a box in that void behind the tire, where you held the salad bowls. That's why I was talking "single ten" (which, sealed, would maybe even be a little squeezed for space), and a single 10" with that flat panel 12" passive radiator - because then the tiny space isn't even a penalty.

    I'm concerned when you say you are just building a baffle and trying to have it work as a sealed box, yet still leave your spare (and tools?) in there. It's hard to even build a sealed enclosure that uses glue, and sealant, with screw spacing more than 3", and have it hold. Even if you build a lid that has some angle iron arranged just inside the perimeter to really make it as rigid as possible, just holding that down by the corners (even if you were using actual hold-downs, like a machinist table), I wouldn't have confidence in that. I'd even be worried about the tools or whatever else inside rattling around, even if you did have a good seal.

    I'm going back to trying to sell you on the '10" + 12" PR' idea

    Or, one other idea that still would be perfect for a 10", if you don't mind a little work:
    Build a removable fiberglass box with a flat panel top that will look exactly like what you are planning now - except cleaner - no hold downs.

    My way really won't be hard - more like a craft project, promise:

    Cut a frame. This will ultimately screw into the bottom of your wood fake trunk floor to join the two together. Cut out the whole middle, leaving maybe an inch all around - basically just a big ring around your trunk. You could make wooden walls if you want, sometimes it's easier to 'glass to walls than to get it to stick to something upside down.

    Build a barrier - I was originally thinking plastic, but this is a perfect job for aluminum foil (which is fragile) and aluminum tape (which isn't). You basically just want to foil over everything in a way that doesn't leave many wrinkles. Spray it all with WD-40.

    Polyester resin is cheap. Chop mat is cheap (get the thick stuff) and you just have to be mildly creative how you cut pieces for the corners (think band-aids for elbows). You'll want enough chop mat to do probably 3 layers of it - with all that shape inside there, you won't need much thickness.

    Mix up enough resin and hardener to do a layer, first. Mix up more as you run out. Use disposable gloves because it's sticky. Lay some plastic dropcloth over your bumper to avoid getting it where you don't want to.

    It's really easy. Think paper mache. And you'll have a proper sealed enclosure that's light and removable.

    Or - a ten and a 12" PR.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    There is currently a factory sub bolted down in this sub-floor. Then of course there is the light weight plastic removable lid. I hear absolutely zero rattle.

    I was going to try my baffle idea first. If i need to choke off air space I have ways to do that.

    I'm no stranger to fiberglass. I've done my share of enclosures with it. But, will only do here as a last resort. Like you mentioned the stuff is messy. I still have some high quality US Composites stuff laying around if need be.

    Ge0
    Scanspeak - Dynaudio - Helix - Bose

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    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    Quote Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
    I don't want to drag your thread off topic - but I remember some epic forum battles between Matt Overpeck and Dan Wiggins... I'm clearly biased because I am fully "team XBL^2", licensed it in the early 00s myself...
    ...but always regretted not buying at least one of the Audiomobile 12s to compare them to my other reference subs.

    I forget now even if the Audiomobile were long-coil overhung, or short-coil underhung...
    Do you recall?
    Either way, I recall they were still more linear (cleaner) than the average sub, but still subject to the traditional design trade-offs that XBL^2 aimed to mitigate.

    Did you buy them in the Matt Overpeck days ('00s)? Or I see there's been a rebirth again, recently (same with Adire's car branch, interestingly enough )...

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
    Info on the Mass 2012-D4: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa...s.40638/page-2

    I bought this sub years ago before the closure and rebirth of Audiomobile. I remember talking directly to Steve and Thilo about the properties of his sub.

    Ge0
    Scanspeak - Dynaudio - Helix - Bose

  7. Back To Top    #47
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    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    Eclipse 8102 is 5 1/4” mounting depth
    Kenwood DDX9903S, Arc PS-8 w/PSC, Arc Audio 1200.6, Helix SPXL1000, Audiofrog GB12D4(2) IB, GB60, GB25, GB10

  8. Back To Top    #48

    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ge0 View Post
    Info on the Mass 2012-D4: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa...s.40638/page-2

    I bought this sub years ago before the closure and rebirth of Audiomobile. I remember talking directly to Steve and Thilo about the properties of his sub.

    Ge0
    Holy crap what a trip down memory lane...
    I was a moderator at the now defunct CarAudioForum.com around this time. It was a little more enthusiast-friendly back than, but still had lots of deep dives like this one, with less intimidating aggression. I miss that place... But CAJ feels a lot like that did.

    I remember lots of those characters and it feels like all that's missing is Dan Wiggins (who did personally supply the Mass 12 for this DUMAX run: https://www.diymobileaudio.com/index.php?posts/475177) and Matt Overpeck himself... Another guy like DS-21 there who had some knowledge but a Sheldon Cooper self image and corresponding levels of tact.

    At any rate - even on that thread there's controversy as to whether it was overhung or underhung... You'd probably be able to tell just by looking at your top plate. I swore I remember them being underhung. I own zero underhung subs. :sad:

    At any rate, I do remember the suspension argument.
    Matt claimed the linear suspension that tapped out at 24mm was both "by design" and "necessary", that it intentionally slowed the speaker over 24mm to avoid crashing (and I feel like I remember him being called out for that because it wouldn't have been the coil that would have struck first, being underhung?) My memory could be totally off, but Dan backed it up with a progressive spider good for about 30mm of linear motion, DUMAX proven - I used the same spider vendor at his recommendation. And that fit standard open market baskets. RE used the same basket, different suspension on the original XXX and got 32mm linear if I recall.

    If Matt had just toned down the arrogance and tried a little humility and relating - history might have been different.

    I'd still love a MASS 12.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

  9. Back To Top    #49
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    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    That's a pretty thick top plate. Seems suitable for an under-hung. But, 'm by far not a sub expert.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wasn't this driver a custom spec'd TC Sounds design? My memory is for sh!t..

    Ge0
    Scanspeak - Dynaudio - Helix - Bose

  10. Back To Top    #50

    Re: Please help me identify a decdent 10" shallow mount sub. Image Dynamics IDQS10??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ge0 View Post
    That's a pretty thick top plate. Seems suitable for an under-hung. But, 'm by far not a sub expert.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wasn't this driver a custom spec'd TC Sounds design? My memory is for sh!t..

    Ge0
    I think so - early in that post you linked were some under-hung specs - I bet that's it.

    And yeah - this was also TC Sounds glory days. That is a sexy sub.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

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