Infinite baffle build for the spring...need some help.

[BenevolentDictator]

So I'm likely going to change the trunk setup I have from my dual 11 inch Stereo Integrity HSTs to either a set of 15s from Dayton seen here (the RSS390HE-22 High Excursion offering):

or a set of these bad boys...from Focal seen here (the 40KX 16" subwoofer):



Here is my conundum; I'm planning to swap out my Sundown Salt 4k for a 2 channel from Zapco that matches my current 6 channel SP series amplifier. I'm also planning to let go of my Stereo Integrity 2 channel so that I can just run a 3 way front like I should have done and delete my rear door speakers (Anarchy 7s)

My goals are to reduce how power hungry this current setup is even with me having a soon to be installed HO alt and big 3 upgrade...I just don't want to have to run so much power to meet my low end needs, to revisit running IB again because even though my first setup wasn't as ideal as it could have been I did appreciate the sound of it....and lastly to be able to have access to my trunk space again while also maintaining a relatively stealthy look.

I'm basically looking for some feedback on which sub you think I should go with.

The Dayton, in usual form, takes 800 watts and has a qts of .51 with an xmax of 27mm
The Focal, in usual form, takes 500 watts and has a qts of .82 with an xmax of 11 mm

I'm concerned about that difference in excursion capability but am also unsure if it matters that much

Price difference not in the equation...what say you folks about those 2 options? I've heard the 13 inch version of this woofer in a competitor's car before and while he didn't play the type of music I typically play on it, I was highly impressed with the impact and sound that the woofer showcased.

I've also been lucky enough to hear a few Dayton products in other situations and have been equally impressed with how they sound.

Please let me know what you think.

[TheTodd]

If I read it right you set set of subs, so I’m assuming a pair? If so I’d do the Focal. While the Qts is a little on the low side for the Dayton it should still work but based on that spec alone I like the Focals. Also by using a pair you should be able to play at levels where the Xmax on the Focals shouldn’t be an issue unless you want block-blasting output. Although, with 2 you could probably still get some serious output even on 600-800w for the pair. I’m running 450w on a single 15” in my car and it can generate some serious pressure and it looks like it’s barely moving.

If you’re going with a single I’d prefer the about 2.5x Xmax on the Dayton.

[BenevolentDictator]

I appreciate that Todd, thanks...yeah I'm going to run a dual setup for sure. I did a single the first time around and it left a bit to be desired due to a few factors.
I'll put a check next to the Focals

If I read it right you set set of subs, so I’m assuming a pair? If so I’d do the Focal. While the Qts is a little on the low side for the Dayton it should still work but based on that spec alone I like the Focals. Also by using a pair you should be able to play at levels where the Xmax on the Focals shouldn’t be an issue unless you want block-blasting output. Although, with 2 you could probably still get some serious output even on 600-800w for the pair. I’m running 450w on a single 15” in my car and it can generate some serious pressure and it looks like it’s barely moving.

If you’re going with a single I’d prefer the about 2.5x Xmax on the Dayton.

[mumbles]

Just for reference, I run AE SBP 15's in IB which AE states they are designed for IB in automotive applications and here are their specs:
SBP15-4ohm
Fs: 21.3 Hz
Qms: 5.35
Vas: 364 L
Cms: 0.35 mm/N
Mms: 160 g
Rms: 4 kg/S
Xmax: 14 mm(peak) <---
Xmech: 20 mm(peak)
Sd: 855 sqcm
Vd: 2.4L (p-p)
Qes: 0.47
Re: 2.7 ohm
Le: 0.3 mH
Z: 4 ohm
Bl: 11.1 T/m
Pe: 500W (cont.)
Qts: 0.43 <---
1WSPL: 90.7 dB
2.83V: 95.44 dB

[TheTodd]

That’s interesting with the Qts. I was always under the impression that it should be around .7 or higher.

[Justin Zazzi]

+1 for TheTodd's thoughts on the Dayton if you have one, or the Focals if you have two.

Also, QTS around 0.7 might yield a lower F3 point, especially in home audio where the cabin gain is not substantial. In a car however, I imagine the exact QTS is less important. Critical damping is 0.5 which from a physics point of view would make me happy. The QTC (with box and with eq filters) can be almost anything you want by adding a Linkwitz Transform filter, however you might need some extra amplifier to make it happen.

I think you're on the right path by chasing large total cone area. The IB setups I've heard in SQ competitions with dial 12" or dual 15" were always incredible, and always with a variety of woofers.

[BenevolentDictator]

Oh yeah mumbles, I'm acutely aware of your install....one of my favorites that I've seen come from Audio X (along with Al and Erin) and I'm hoping I get to hear it before I pull the trigger on mine. If yours sounds as good as advertised that may push me towards the AEs. I read that you said when it was being tested the bass was turned down and you said it still got rowdy (not verbatim) so that's important for me next to accuracy.

Thanks for the input as always.

Just for reference, I run AE SBP 15's in IB which AE states they are designed for IB in automotive applications and here are their specs:
SBP15-4ohm
Fs: 21.3 Hz
Qms: 5.35
Vas: 364 L
Cms: 0.35 mm/N
Mms: 160 g
Rms: 4 kg/S
Xmax: 14 mm(peak) <---
Xmech: 20 mm(peak)
Sd: 855 sqcm
Vd: 2.4L (p-p)
Qes: 0.47
Re: 2.7 ohm
Le: 0.3 mH
Z: 4 ohm
Bl: 11.1 T/m
Pe: 500W (cont.)
Qts: 0.43 <---
1WSPL: 90.7 dB
2.83V: 95.44 dB

[BenevolentDictator]

We have a new challenger in this race:

DC Audio LV4 18


specs:
Specifications:

Voice Coil Diameter	in	3
Power Handling	RMS	1400W
Peak	2800
Magnet Weight	lbs	29
DC Resistance (Re)	Ω	3.82
Resonance Frequency (Fs)	Hz	26.4
Equivalent Volume (Vas)	L	175.29
Mechanical Q Factor (Qms)		11.82
Electrical Q Factor (Qes)		0.746
Total Q Factor (Qts)		0.701
One-way, Linear Excursion (Xmax)	mm	23.5
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)	mH	3.78
Force Factor (BL)	NA	19.18
Moving Mass (incl. Air Load) (Mms)	g	427.53
Suspension Compliance (Cms)	mm/N	0.085
Ref SPL @ 1 Watt	dB	88.2
Sealed Enclosure Suggestion	cu. ft.	4
Ported Enclosure Suggestion	cu. ft.	5.5
Displacement	cu. ft.	0.26
Mounting Depth	in	9.5
Mounting Hole Diameter	in	16.75
Outside Driver Diameter	in	18.5

I actually have the space for these if you can imagine.

[Chris12]

I have a similar car, though it’s the previous generation (and a lower trim level.)

Previous to my current sub setup, I tried:
1) an 8” underseat sub. (which failed for a variety of reasons)
2) then an AE SBP15 in an in car IB setup on about 250rms.

I really liked the IB setup at moderate listening levels. But, when I tried to turn it up, the rattling killed it for me.

I don’t know what type of suspension the trunk lid on your ‘19 Avalon uses, but I feel like a majority of my issues came from the trunk lid torsion bars (‘15 Camry.). Here’s a thread with some information:
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa.../#post-5930283


For whatever reason, I have virtually no rattling with my current spare tire well enclosure.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with !

[BenevolentDictator]

Thank you for these resources...i'm about to read them now. I don't believe that my trunk has the torsion bars....it's pretty much a clear shot across from hinge to hinge so outside of me deadening my license plate...there is no deadener on my trunk lid. The only rattles I'm dealing with currently is my rear tray dealing with the pressure from my woofers firing up and out of the factory 8 inch hole that my friend decided to leave open and the vents in the trunk flapping under high pressure songs. I'm going to try to continue to tame my rear deck and track down the vents so I can line them with ccf to quiet the flapping noise but still leave them open to depressurize the car. My initial idea was to make my spare tire well the enclosure since my subs only need a cube a piece but they're still tall subs so it would have negated the benefits of having them recessed like that. Maybe in another vehicle I can do a setup like yours.

I have a similar car, though it’s the previous generation (and a lower trim level.)

Previous to my current sub setup, I tried:
1) an 8” underseat sub. (which failed for a variety of reasons)
2) then an AE SBP15 in an in car IB setup on about 250rms.

I really liked the IB setup at moderate listening levels. But, when I tried to turn it up, the rattling killed it for me.

I don’t know what type of suspension the trunk lid on your ‘19 Avalon uses, but I feel like a majority of my issues came from the trunk lid torsion bars (‘15 Camry.). Here’s a thread with some information:
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa.../#post-5930283


For whatever reason, I have virtually no rattling with my current spare tire well enclosure.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with !