Erin's 2006 Civic Sedan

[erinh]

That remains to be seen. My initial thought is it would be dangerous. But I guess no more dangerous than how I used to scroll through my old DD. Actually, IMHO, the p99 is the safest of them all because the remote mimics the iPod scroll wheel. Even DD headunit with their extra space seemed more cumbersome to me because you had to not only lean forward to touch the headunit but you also had to scroll/slide through the directories with your finger.

So in that regard the Sony app is probably in between the p99 remote scroll wheel and double dins. At least with the app, using your phone, you can put it in your hand so I see that as a positive over Double dins. But I still think the p99 is the easiest.

All that said, I typically leave my music on shuffle so I don't usually have to worry about it.

[naiku]

That remains to be seen. My initial thought is it would be dangerous.

That was my initial thought as well, before I hooked up steering wheel controls to my Nexus, with no tactile feedback it was as bad as texting while driving, even just with something simple like changing the volume. Unfortunately the steering wheel controls don't let me scroll through albums/artists. I think I could get the voice control working though which should work. However.....

I typically leave my music on shuffle so I don't usually have to worry about it.

This is exactly what I do.

[erinh]

I've been doing some testing on the Sony and the P99. I'll post up more details later but for now I just wanted to share some pictures...

[erinh]

Alrighty!... got my little one in bed and slapped my new headphones on. Ready for this!? Let's go!


My purpose in bench testing was a) see how I like the control of the Sony and b) do some basic testing of the electronics.

a) Well, this one's still TBD. I need more time and I really should install this in the car to say for certain how cumbersome (or not) using the iPhone for display is. So, let's get to b)...

b) The P99 is a great headunit so having it on hand to compare the Sony directly to made life a bit easier. First up: pre-out voltage.
I took a 1khz, 0dB tone and played it on both the Sony and the P99 (I tested both AUX and USB inputs; same results).

The results were as follows:
Pioneer P99 doesn't clip at full volume (62/62), with a measured voltage of 4.73 Vrms. I finally got the unit to clip with a boosted tone and have determined the P99's clipping point is roughly 5vRMS. But, again, I had to generate a boosted tone to achieve that. The P99 puts out clean voltage all the way up.*
Sony RSX-GS9 clips at 49/50, with the voltage being just below 4.20 Vrms. Once you go above 4.20 Vrms the GS9 output is clipped (distorted).

*I've had some friends tell me their units clipped at 60/62 on the p99. I've had about 4-6 of these units in my hands and personally haven't found one that has clipped. But, just letting you know.





Here's some pictures of the output testing...



P99. 4.73 Vrms and no clipping indicator in the D-1.





Sony GS9. You can see at 4.20 Vrms I got a clipped signal indicator.

[Elgrosso]

Very cool, I'll follow carefully because I just receied mine, and I'm sure you'll go deeper in review.

About the app, you should try leechtunes, honestly I tried a bunch since few years and I can't see anything better.
Everything is customizable based on swipe/double, triple or more taps. The entire screen is a button, so it can be used totally blind.
Also has albums background etc, but the navigation/selection part is clearly less dangerous than trying to point a small button on the screen while checking the road.

[erinh]

Moving on...


I've noticed in past testing the P99 seems to have a very quick 'jump' in voltage output at the end of it's turn. To explain, the P99 has a maximum volume of "62". Between 59 and 62 the voltage jumps quite a bit (something like 1 full volt; I'd have to double check my numbers which are saved on another computer in my garage). I was curious to see just what the volume number vs output voltage looked like. How close to logarithmic is it? And how does the Sony GS9 compare?

To test this I simply took the same 1khz tone referenced above and played it through each headunit. I turned the volume up and recorded the voltage out one increment at a time from Zero to Max. With Max, it's 62 clicks for the P99 and for the GS9 it's 50 clicks.
I then plotted the volume vs voltage both as a percentage. So, if the volume knob was at 62/62 that was 100%. The max voltage out would be 100% voltage. Make sense? Okay, cool! Here are the results:




^ What you can see is that the Sony volume knob is more incremental but still logarithmic. The P99 is much more steep at the end of the volume scale. The P99's output voltage increases nearly 66% in the last 10% of the volume turns (that's about the range from 56-62). Now, is this good? Bad? Heckifiknow. I think it's more subjective. But it doesn't seem good to me. Seems the Sony really looks like the typical/ideal audio log. The P99's taper bothers me to see such a steep swing in such a short range. I prefer the volume steps the Sony implements. Why? Because there's not much wiggle room... with the P99 it seems like they simply have too many steps in volume, and that's also based on my experience. Seems like they could have had less stops in the volume and maybe made the taper more gradual like what you see with the Sony's volume taper.






Here's the same thing as above but instead of representing the voltage as a percentage, I've provided it as the real voltage numbers. I made sure to color the Sony's clipping area in red, overlaid on the otherwise burgundy 'line'. (Note: the header of the graph is incorrect but I'm not sweating it.)




This should also really gives you pause if you're the person who says to set gains based on 75% headunit volume and you still use attenuated tones to set amp gains. You're leaving a lot of signal on the floor and then ramping it up even more by using a -10dB or so tone. That's why it's good practice to know where the source and/or DSP clip and set them to max unclipped output before setting amp gains. But that's a side topic.

[erinh]

and now we get to the part where I shouldn't be posting because it's total blasphemy and whatnot: the (sighted) aural test!


I hooked up both the P99 and GS9 on the bench, fed with a USB source signal and did a totally sighted audition. I did set the headunit voltages to the same output (about 0.844 Vrms) with a 1khz tone to match them to the amp input. Then I went about my merry way of auditioning with my eyes wide open. It was funny... as I was listening I would think to myself "oh, this one sounds better tonally" and then think the opposite. I kept going back and forth on tonality. Ultimately, they're a wash. Even when using that 'DDSE' option on the Sony... I didn't hear anything that jumped out at me. Of course, the tracks I was using were high quality tracks anyway (you guys saw my 'Remasters and Audiophoolery' thread, didn't you? ). The only area where I kept feeling like there was a difference, though, was in the soundstage. It just seemed like the Sony had a larger soundstage and better separation. I'm not talking about "OMG, the Sony is the champion of the world!". But it was something I kept thinking sounded better. Maybe just psychoacoustics. Though, I did talk to a friend last night who said he felt the same way about the Sony. So who knows.

After that, I did some more electrical tests. The below is the difference between the P99 and the Sony GS9's frequency response. What you see are extremely minor differences... about 0.5dB at the extreme ends and I'm thinking that may be more to do with the impedance than the actual units' FR. But, this backs up what I was hearing regarding tonality... nothing here stands out at all and it shouldn't. There shouldn't be any deviance from flat in an electronic's frequency response... unless you're talking about Tubes, maybe.

[erinh]

Basically, all of that above to say this:

Sound Quality speaking... as just a pure deck and not considering the DSP or UI... both the P99 and GS9 are great units. The noteworthy thing here, as unsurprising as it *should* be is this: there is no clear winner. They're both great units.
But if you're thinking "oh, man, that Sony is the bee's knees" and you already have a P99 and are satisfied with it: don't waste your money seeking better sound. The P99 doesn't get beat up here. They're both just extremely good sources. Plus as Clay mentioned earlier, if you use the Sony you're gonna have to have a very nice DSP downstream.

Now, when you factor in the P99's built-in DSP, the P99 is the logical buy. But that stupid volume swing bothers me. And I do prefer the overall look of the Sony. Then there's user preference on interface (I like the p99's scroll wheel remote but think the Sony's app display is interesting). So there are certainly reasons to choose one over the other as trivial or legitimate as they may be. I just advise not getting caught up in the notion that the Sony beats the snot out of the Pioneer in SQ (or vice versa) because - as far as my ears can tell - that's simply not the case. My $0.02. Of course, you know how opinions are... This is simply one of those kind of things you have to try out for yourself to know for sure. Luckily Crutchfield has a relaxed return policy.



That said, I'm still personally on the fence, though I keep leaning back toward the P99's simplicity and, in my case, the notion of running straight in to my beloved Mc amp. Decisions, decisions...

[erinh]

I took some time this morning to try the Sony SongPal app on my iPad mini 2. Compared to using my iPhone, the iPad is a LOT easier and safer to navigate.
Worth noting, though, that the app is designed for the iPhone. So when you search for SongPal under iPad apps it doesn't show up. Wonder what a native iPad app would look like... if nothing else just higher resolution I would expect.

The ipad was just resting in my dash space... it's not molded in. I'm still personally leaning toward the P99.

[Notloudenuf]

Thanks for taking the time to listen and write up your findings. It seems for the car stereo the P99 may still win considering its built in DSP which you obviously need inside of a car. I think what I'm reading means if you had a perfect downstream speaker setup that required no other EQ the Sony would win.

Thanks for being the guinea pig.