Erin's 2006 Civic Sedan

[Hic]

Boy , you'd have to be stoned to follow this . . .

Glad I Am

I'mma go with Erin on this one. Just cause hearing is subjective !

[chad]

Right. Experimentation yields different results. I've been using rear fill for a while and I've always found that my car does better when I have more than the basic 15ms delay. Even when I had the whole experiment set up in my garage using the Rockford q1000 to handle the Dolby PLII processing, the sound improved with delay reaching closer to Haas (30ms+). But like you said, it's easy enough to experiment with.

Yeah, at 15ms, sans the 3-5 you already have to shave off, you will still be able to locate. My target is usually no more than 20ms, after that things get goofy, any less than 10-12 and you can totally locate.

I'm sure you have seen this.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedence_effect But if not...

[Hic]

Chad would you use a pure tone or a single instrument , etc.., to set the initial lag or time delay ?

probably a song would be required ... eh ?

The left minus right bandpassing of the signals common to both speakers would do better with a complex signal of differing frequencies for this effect to be ideal.

[chad]

A tone would not do a whole lot for you.... A click or music does...

Things get interesting when you are not dealing with full rock-balls volume and you have to line up the mains to the stage to make it sound as if it is the stage you are hearing, then get the delays to line up with that hot mess.

This is why I prefer rock-balls loud. Let the theater kids deal with that other stuff.

[Hic]

OK Chad , The extreme loudness reminds me of Richard Clark's Buick Grand National , he had a soundgate in it and they said it had a waterfall effect to the sound when he cranked it up.

Chad what was the purpose of the soundgate ?

[chad]

think of gates as expanders as opposed to compressors.

[Hic]

OK , thank you sir !

[erinh]

I've said it hundreds of times but headunits are my worst enemy. I may be the pickiest person I know when it comes to front ends. You're happy with yours? I'm jealous of that satisfaction. But, alas, I am the way I am. So let's get on with the show...

The alpine 957 I had the past two years was good but when I switched to the Mc I traded the helix dsp (partially) for the mc and had that whole "clean signal" idea of using the p99. I used the p99 and put a good solid tune on the system but there are a few key features the Helix has that will help make the system better than graphic EQ bands. Namely, shelf filter. I can throw a single shelf filter at my mids and remedy a few problems with that single filter where with the p99 I:
a) I have to use 4 graphic eq bands (which can cause phase issues right smack in the area where your ear is sensitive to phasing) or
b) I have to use a 6dB slope at 1.2khz.

The "b" option worked better than option "a" but it's not ideal. So I was looking back at the Helix. With the new Helix Pro 2 coming out and it having a few extra features over the Pro 1 (I'll get to one below), I decided to go that route for the time being, though.



So, back to an external DSP to get the response I want in the best manner. That leaves me the option of using a different headunit if I am so inclined. I missed the double-din GUI of the 957 but really dig the carplay stuff. So I looked around at the options and tried the following two:
Kenwood DDX9903s
Pioneer AVIC-8100NEX. I could have gotten the 8200nex but for my needs, there's no difference in the 8100/8200nex models so I went with the cheaper option.

I chose these over their breathren (i.e.; Pioneer AVIC-7100NEX) based on price and their having the Capacitive touchscreen. This screen type looks so much better than the resistive touchscreen, imho.

I got both in and bench tested them. Here's my very quick impressions on the bench:

• Kenwood 9903s: NOISY. Mechanically and acoustically. The fan on the back of this unit is loud. And the output signal is corrupted with noise. You can find other comments reflecting mine in various reviews. It doesn't work with iPod classic, which I expected based on what the manual had to say. But I was hoping maybe it would. No bueno. It went back in the box after about 10 minutes. I definitely wouldn't recommend the Kenwood unless they at least fix the noisy pre-outs. No way am I using this.
• Pioneer 8100nex: Very nice. Clean signal... about 4v output without clipping. No noise. I connected both my iPod classic (5th gen, to be specific) and my iPhone at the same time. iPod in USB1 and iPhone in USB2. This allows me to switch sources on the fly. Sweet! I really like this unit overall but it's boot time is about 13 seconds and on top of that it loads the warning screen and you have to accept the warning before it'll start playing music. That's lame.
• Carplay is nice. Both units have it. And I really, really like it.

All that said, though, I don't know that I'll use the 8100nex. The helix pro 2 is going to have a direct USB add-on piece that would allow me to connect an iphone/ipad directly to it. No need for a headunit at all unless I cared about CDs and radio. So I'm considering that option. I have a pretty large library of high-quality music but I also subscribe to apple music and use it a LOT. So a 128gb iPad in the dash connected to wireless network via my phone's hotspot is looking more and more enticing, especially since I can feed that signal straight in to the helix digitally. The iPad option has it's own problems, though.

Of course, I can always just keep the p99 in spite of the things I don't care for GUI/features wise and pair it with the Helix Pro 2. Or I can use the p99 in conjunction with an ipad in the dash. Side note: I removed the mcintosh meters from up front. As awesome as they look, I just wasn't too fond of them in my car. The p99 looks better by itself... again, in my car. It's still a sweet looking combo but the p99 on its own looks better in my dash.

So that's where I'm at right now ... the headunit tale keeps going. No moral of the story right now. Just sharing some info. Mainly so people who are looking at the Kenwood 9903s or Pioneer 8100/8200nex may have a bit more info on them. I'll update the thread once I finally come to a real decision on what I'm going to do up front.





Some pics of the 8100nex...

[Notloudenuf]

That screen looks really good. I guess my 2700 has a resistive screen because it looks nowhere near that good.

[erinh]

yea, man. in person it sure is nice. looks like the ipad/iphone screens. I'm sure they're a PITA in direct sunlight, though.