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Thread: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

  1. Back To Top    #81

    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    thank you both for your response. I ashamedly admit I have very little to no idea what the APL1 does other than a rudimentary understanding of functions

  2. Back To Top    #82

    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    The loop through trick to get the extra bands of PEQ has nothing to do with the APL1, it's all in the JL amp. The JL VXi line has a fairly traditional DSP built in with multiple inputs, TA, EQ, and X-Overs.

    The APL1 is a completely different thing and is only tuned once the rest of the system has been tuned. It's a 2 channel in, 2 channel out, device that can adjust EQ and minimum phase at 4096s point per channel. There a HUGE thread about it on the other forum that goes into a LOT of detail about how it works. Also, the website: http://aplaudio.com/

  3. Back To Top    #83

    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    ok, i thought it all originated with the apl1. does it make that much of a difference if you have all of the eq ability from the dsp?

  4. Back To Top    #84

    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    The DSP has 10 bands of parametric EQ per output, that's actually really good! You can do a LOT with 10 bands, especially on a single driver in an active setup.

    The APL1 has 4096 bands, or to put it another way, an adjustment every 6Hz throughout the entire passband! That's freakin crazy! On top of that, it's doing a bit more than adjusting EQ, it's also making phase changes at each point. And instead of measuring a single point, or a handful of points and averaging them, you measure the entire listening space. It allows you to go from this:

    (purple is the target response, green is actual response)


    To this:




    In five minutes. Keep in mind, there is NO smoothing applied to those graphs. That is also with NO tuning done outside of setting TA and X-overs.

    While the graphs are pretty, what it does to the actual listening experience is better. Yes, it cleans things up, you get a better stage and focus, yadda yadda yadda... Most importantly, the sweet spot is MUCH bigger, you don't have to sit still like a robot to enjoy your system. Want to slide the seat up because you are driving barefoot? The sound doesn't really change much. Want to slide the seat back because you have your work boots on? The sound doesn't really change much. Feel like leaning right, or left? Same sound. You get to put less daily thought into your listening than you do with traditional methods.

  5. Back To Top    #85

    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    that is an awesome, simple and functional explanation! thank you. I love learning and you have made this very simple. again, thanks. Is this something that has to stay in-line or can it be introduced, act, and be removed from the signal chain?

  6. Back To Top    #86

    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    A good news post!


    First the non-car audio related news. I got a promotion at work, I'm now a Project Manager instead of an LED Video Tech. This means I'll be running all of our golf shows and a handful of other shows. I have a handful of techs under me, and my direct supervisor is an awesome dude with a TON of experience and great attitude. Even better, I'll be home a LOT more. I travelled 255 days last year for 15 golf tournaments. Now I'll attend a handful of tournaments, and instead of being there for the whole two weeks it takes to do a tournament, I'll just be there for setup and a couple days during tournament week to make sure things are off to a good start, then I'll go home. I've been on the road(in various forms) since 2007, so it'll take a little while to get used to being home so much.


    As far as the install goes, I have some mediocre news there. Before my last trip I was having some serious issues with my XVi, see here: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...8-post231.html


    Several weeks ago JL agreed to swap the amp out, but I had already left on my trip, so that was put on hold. I got home on Tuesday and did some updates on my computer(I NEVER update on the road) and saw that TüN had an update. Today I plugged the computer into the amp and did the update. The distortion issues went away with the update, so yay! However, if I try to send the digital out the Aux outputs and back to inputs 1&2, it's still high passed, and the volume is VERY low. If I go direct from the digital input to outputs 1-4, it works fine now. So, I feel like I should still send it back, but fuck, I just want some music in my car, and I can get it to work on for now.


    While contemplating pulling the amp I went ahead and put 4 sheets of KnuKoncepts Kolossus in each door. I out on sheet on the outer skin, one on the inner metal skin, one on the plastic inner skin, and one on the door card. I also swapped out the plastic inner plastic skins with one from a Bose system, so no more hack job to get the 8's in. I also used some prefab spacers for the 8's. The 8's still stick out way too far and prevent the door card from going on all the way. I ordered some SB Acoustic 8's that are shallower, but they have an 8" cutout, and the door has a 7" cutout that can't really be made much bigger without a bunch of extra work. Some Illusion Carbon 8's would fit the bill perfectly...


    I did some basic tuning with the top up with REW, no TA, and no APL tuning, with Raimonds MP1 tune as my target. This is where I am right now:





    It's pretty far off from the target, but sounds pretty good so far. I suspect the area 2k(where the x-overs are set) will get a little better once I set TA using TDA. That big dip at 105Hz was there before and after tuning. I suspect it's a modal issue and there isn't much I can do about it. I'll set TA with TDA and tune with Workshop over the weekend.

  7. Back To Top    #87

    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    Today was a little bit of a struggle. A couple weeks ago my laptop died and I had to replace it. I had a recent Time Machine backup of MacOS, so I was up and running quickly. The bummer is that Time Machine doesn’t back up Bootcamp installations. I don’t keep any data on the Bootcamp partition, but I did have to install Windows from scratch, and I totally forgot to do that while I was traveling because I have a work laptop with Windows on it.


    So today I went to fire up my APL software to discover that I still needed to install Windows. No problem, I fired up Bootcamp and went to work. Then Bootcamp failed when partitioning the drive. To fix this I wiped the whole computer clean, reinstalled MacOS and restored my most recent Time Machine backup. I was then able to install Windows without a problem, then boot the Windows partition up from Fusion. I installed all the Matlab and .Net frameworks needed for the APL software, then went to install the APL Drivers and ran into this error:





    Grrrr…


    My personal Windows 8 computer still works fine, so I’ll use that to connect to the APL1 until I can resolve this issue.


    Finally this afternoon I was done futzing around with software and was able to do some tuning. I started by bumping the mid/tweet crossover down to 1600, and reset the EQ’s in the amp. I then started tuning from scratch by using APL TDA to set TA. It was HOT as hell in the car, so I had to keep it running with the A/C on full blast just to keep the computer from overheating. I turned the HVAC off, did a sweep, then turned it back on again. You can see the engine running in the TDA plots, here they are after setting TA:


    Left:



    Right:



    Both:



    The highpass on the mids is set at 50Hz, so ignore everything below that. There is some weirdness going on around the mid/tweet crossover on the left side, I wonder if I can clean that up with allpass filters? I don’t know enough about allpass filter to know. You can see some wicked reflections on both sides over 10k. The combined Plot looks ok, but I suspect I can get the left-to-right a little better.


    When I played some music the center is just a touch to the left side of the car, but otherwise solid as rock, and just below eye level. Not bad for zero EQ.


    I then jumped over to REW and did a couple quick measurements of the individual speakers:





    I did some quick tuning using the filters REW recommended, then remeasured:





    There are three dips on the right side that are interesting, 330hz, 590Hz, and 1315Hz. The mids and tweets seem to mate up really well without any dips at the X-over point. Overall, both sides seem to sum up pretty well without any major issues. I’ll tune with APL Workshop tomorrow and see what I get.


    I have some more door treatments on the way, I’m curious to see how they'll affect the frequency response. At the moment, with the volume all the way up, there isn’t any noise from the doors. You also don’t feel too much vibration when resting your arm on the door arm rest.


    Overall, it sounds pretty good, no complaints at all. I'm not gonna spend too much time listening until after tuning with Workshop.

  8. Back To Top    #88

    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    I did some tuning with APL today. First a couple graphs, left side before and after:








    And right before and after:








    One of my favorite parts of tuning with the APL is when you send the files to the unit. With no pauses, clicks, or defects in the sound, the new tune just snaps into place, and instantly sounds so much better. I was listening to folding Money by Radney Foster when I uploaded the files and it just came to life. I went for a drive and went through some songs, Another One Bites the Dust has great impact. I Will Rise Up by Lyle Lovett easily plays wider than the car and has some fantastic presence. Bartender by DMB is quite lively, as is St. nLouis Woman by Peter Cincotti. Don’t Do It by Underpaid Packy uses a bass guitar as the foundation of the song, and it’s very well composed, it plays cleanly with no breakup. And when playing Regulate you wouldn’t know there aren’t subs in the car, and the doors don’t rattle!


    I’m really gonna enjoy this!


    It’s clear in the graphs that the right side is a little lower than the left, but it’s very hard to hear it in the car.


    If I can get the APL drivers to install on my MBP, I can use APL C5 to stack a couple more filters on top of the current ones to smooth it out a little more.

  9. Back To Top    #89

    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    I spent a bunch of time trying everything I could to get the APL drivers to install in Windows 10 with no luck. I fired up C5 and poked around a bit and feel pretty comfortable with it. One of the fun things is the better look at the filters Workshop generates. here are some examples.


    This is the left side after one pass with Workshop:



    This is the filter generated on the second pass:



    Once I get C5 working correctly, I can stack these filters(up to 3) so it gets progressively better each time.


    In a separate window you can see how the filters combine. You can also see the effects of the crossovers, and the filters available inside of C5, kinda neat.

  10. Back To Top    #90
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    Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build

    Fucking SWEET !
    Viewing Smilies , you trying to access privileged system?¤Somewhere 0ut There¤}]

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