Sub Amp Sound Differences

[Hic]

Worry about front speakers

[Hic]

A great set of front speakers are what you're after , paper cones are my preference for speakers , but . . . as sound is improved the actual recording of the music becomes an issue , Erin can explain why he needs to find better, best and pricey or more expensive recordings is because the speakers begin to reveal many more details or conversely makes the run of the mill - just sound well -- like mp3's

[Marc1234]

I was actually reading your thread last night wondering the same. From my limited experience, as long as it's decent and there's headroom, the burden will be on the tuning, enclosure and sub more than anything as others have stated.

FWIW, I have a JBL W12 MKii and it's on an HD750/1. Best sounding sub FOR ME but I feel it's getting choked at high volume. I was wondering if it's lack of headroom or class D. White papers tell me it's headroom or my head or me.

[Hillbilly SQ]

I was actually reading your thread last night wondering the same. From my limited experience, as long as it's decent and there's headroom, the burden will be on the tuning, enclosure and sub more than anything as others have stated.

FWIW, I have a JBL W12 MKii and it's on an HD750/1. Best sounding sub FOR ME but I feel it's getting choked at high volume. I was wondering if it's lack of headroom or class D. White papers tell me it's headroom or my head or me.

Don't remember what that sub is rated for but it is beastly. You'd have to spend A LOT to find a better line of amps than the HD. Depending on coil configuration, maybe do a 750/1 on each coil to let that puppy wail

[Babs]

Don't remember what that sub is rated for but it is beastly. You'd have to spend A LOT to find a better line of amps than the HD. Depending on coil configuration, maybe do a 750/1 on each coil to let that puppy wail

I've tried multiple channels (one channel per coil, fed by common input channel) on the TM65's.. It didn't go well. Muddy with something strange going on.

[cajunner]

I don't have nearly enough experience using mono amps of class D architecture, to make any substantiated claims that hold water, but... as an opine, I'd suggest that there is a long-standing proof of higher power class AB amps sounding stronger than class D, when comparing the low THD rating numbers, apples to apples.

Realizing that the class D design requires a big inductor which by nature may be inherently notorious for skewing precision numbers elsewhere generated by the amp's circuitry, they tend to place class D amps at their 1.0% THD, or lowest inaudible, as their test data publishing. You can wind an inductor with a wire, at a known tension and using wire that is extremely accurate dimensionally, and still churn out a bucket of inductors that test a little off...

but that's not what is the problem, right...





the problem seems to be headroom, and the way that class D amps deliver right to the end of the envelope, then garbage commences. AB amps seem to have a soft clip version, where the perceived distortion comes across as more powah, as it is distortion the mind is reacting to, and not the actual db numbers at the amp's limits.

You can see this in many aspects of audio, intentional squirts of distortion applied uniquely and patent pending, makes the system seem louder using the same watts.

The analogy speaker-wise might be the XBL topology, where a sharp fall off of BL energy at the end of stroke, makes the sub unable to produce louder results, even if it's clean output is deceptively high.

These techniques and patents, all ways to extend the amount of watts, or good clean signal, haha... do not necessarily lend themselves to long-term listening attributes.

And that's what the splash and pizazz of speakers that sound exciting in a store's sound room, find themselves gritty and blaring, at home under the extended listening sessions even as newcomers to the audio scene say "speaker sounds great, Jim!" not realizing they haven't sat down and given it a go over the week.

so with subs, class D runs out of power before the volume knob can be turned down a bit, and you will hear it, one detent extra and it's wop.

class AB might allow two detents of volume knob transgression, before you say "that's distortion" and make the mental adjustment to bring it back down.

these are harmless observations and not indicative of any particular brand or design scheme, and as always you YMMV your way, I'm sure the exceptions out there can be found and produced.

I haven't heard the sweetness of class D as produced by higher end namesakes, so I wouldn't be averse to being corrected here, but as an audio adage, wives tale or myth, as it were, you'd have to buy at least 1/3 more class D power to approximate the AB equivalency, given confirmation bias and the human error of transforming slight distortion into a "louder" scenario.

I would expect those using 5 channel amps with class D sections for efficiency, and AB up top for "audiophile" purpose, to be understandably mixed up with such a generalization, but that's also a place where some amps have not cannibalized the power supply during rail sags, to prevent class D sections from being duly stressed, I prefer sub amps always be a separate piece of the puzzle. Even as test results show that those multi-channel amps put out the numbers, I just don't have faith in the all under one roof option.

[Hillbilly SQ]

Compared to my Mosconi One series amps producing more power, My JL XD 800/8 sounds cleaner and seems to have better control over the speakers. Given the choice, I'll choose JL class D amps over Mosconi every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'm not the only one who has noticed there's something special about how the XD amps "sound". Whatever they did with this line of amps is working great. And, I replaced a pair of 4ch a/b amps with one class D amp. Blew my mind how good of a job that one amp doing 75x6 plus 200x1 did compared to the 120x6 plus 340x1 I had before. Fullrange D has come a VERY LONG WAY over the past 10 years. Remember the first generation of Alpine PDX amps? Those amps were terrible as more than a sub amp. I know from experience. These days as long as the fullrange D amp is of good quality it makes no difference. There are still turds in the punch bowl and I do believe it's a lot easier to get one of those turds with fullrange D than it is with a/b. Do research and buy good quality gear and the chances of getting a turd goes way down.

[Marc1234]

Thanks everyone for their input. So just so I understand the different experiences and schools of thought, I could put an amp on each foil, carefully, although that may muddy it up. Get a bigger amp or go class a/b and bigger. Or it may be the motor on that particular sub. Only other time I remember a sub running out and sounding like this is when I would push small sealed boxes too low and the output/clarity started suffering. Luckily I've got 2 W15's laying around for the next build.

Anyone have any experience running 2 five channels, one per side? Lots of headroom there and those Audison 5.1k HD's have me thinking. Of course they would have to come thru on their word that the BitPlay HD is fixed AND the new BitOne HD is bug free. Interesting none the less for full digital signal chain.

Apologies, Champ, if I made this about me for a min. I am pretty self centered. Lol.

[beak81champ]

All good brother! I don't care who a thread is about, I just like reading the info and opinions you guys all contribute!