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my 2012 mk6 gti build
i guess i'll start with the things that are current
most work was done by JT Audio & Accessories ( http://jtaudioacc.com ) in Cerritos, CA. i did the deadening, rcas, and power wiring.
JT's build log for a previous iteration is here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10155183823314142.1073741864.75484824141&ty pe=3
an even further back iteration is here https://www.facebook.com/pg/jtaudioa...=page_internal
here's the gear:
- factory vw rns-510 radio, vagcom'd to do 4vrms-out
- helix pro mk2 w/ usb-hec and director
- topping d10 dac into coax spdif input of dsp
- two arc audio x2 1200.6
- two arc audio x2 1100.1
- two scanspeak r3004 tweeters
- two scanspeak 12m midranges, sealed
- two audio-development w800neo midbasses, sealed
- two audible-physics ar3p, infinite baffle (rear fill)
- two illusion audio c12xls, 1cu ft sealed each
- CLD/deadener installed on the front door frame, front door card, floor, ceiling/roof, hatch area, and liftgate
- CCF installed on all five doors and floor
- CCF or trunk liner under the enclosure to decouple
- 1/8" MLV installed on the front four doors and floor (1lb per sq ft)
- HMF installed on the roof/ceiling
- Denim/Polyfill stuffed in gaps
- 1/16" sheet lead installed on the front seat floors (4lbs per sq ft), sandwiched inside CCF
- knu 1/0ga and 4ga power/ground
- audison connection sfd41c power/ground
- custom RCAs from dsp to amps. gepco 61801ez cable, pailiccs RCA ends, followed shinjohn's how-to https://pbase.com/shinjohn/diyinterconnects
- stinger 6000 4ch rca front to back
as configured:
- one 1200.6 in 5ch mode sending 700w to one midbass and 150w to each tweeter and rearfill
- one 1200.6 in 3ch mode sending 700w to one midbass and 325w to each midrange
- one 1100.1 to each sub, giving them about 1050w each
tweeters and midbasses are different but here's the front stage:
https://agitated.net/gallery/d/17702-1/IMG_3161.jpeg
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb...d/IMG_1317.jpg
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb.../IMG_3035.jpeg
https://agitated.net/gallery/d/17690-1/IMG_2693.jpeg
https://agitated.net/gallery/d/17502-1/IMG_1317.jpg
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
made the 5600mi round trip journey to finals. didn't get the scores i wanted but did okay in my class. almost okayest of extreme class!
positive notes for this year:
- no stolen gear from bigred's front yard
- no tire blowouts
- no emergency room visits
it was nice seeing people again.
fuck that drive. 🚮
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
What dimension lead sheet did you order? Does using lead still work like MLV where you shouldn't have more than about 10% left open for it to work?
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
this is about 4lbs per sq ft, or 1/16" thick. i ordered a 24" x 48" sheet from amazon, roto metals brand
1/64" thickness is 1lb per sq ft, same density as 1/8" mlv. goal is 100% coverage like mlv. sheet lead is more moldable than mlv and 8x thinner
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
here's some why with this build, since some is a bit unconventional:
why mlv in the doors? minimize subwoofer resonances in the doors.
why sheet lead on the floors, as well as MLV, CCF, CLD, and factory deadening? get rid of remaining kickpanel midbass tactile feedback.
why upgrade from 3/4" r2004 to to 1" r3004 tweeters? 5-6db more sensitive across much of the passband, for effortlessness/realism i detected while helping a few people tune their r3004s out here.
why upgrade from 10" subs to 12" subs? effortlessness on the bottom half octave (20-30hz). for a given output, less cone movement means less tactile feedback
why 1100w to the subs? extra power to power through slightly smaller enclosures. they're in slightly undersized (1cu ft vs 1.2cu ft) sealed enclosures.
why 700w to the midbasses? same reason as the subs, but really helps with dynamics and impact.
why 325w to midranges? helps with detail and dynamics.
why rear fill aimed that way? conventional wisdom is forward for depth, side-to-side for width. i don't need any more width so i aimed for opposite headrests (of sorts) to help with depth/layering. rear-fill's been off all year long though.
why replace illusion c8s with ad w800neos? get 100% of the magnet structure behind the cone, avoid chuffing noises (air moving in the coil gap) as the cone moves
why sail monitors? all the width.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nadams5755
...
why 1100w to the subs? extra power to power through slightly smaller enclosures. they're in slightly undersized (1cu ft vs 1.2cu ft) sealed enclosures.
why 700w to the midbasses? same reason as the subs, but really helps with dynamics and impact.
why 325w to midranges? helps with detail and dynamics.
...
I need to save this quote to remind myself to go for it when I upgrade my amps.
I know I won't be happy unless I have a similar power setup, though I know I'll never use it all..
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Gain structure is important as well, helps keep linearity in check.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
i finally washed off 2300mi of bugs. :)
i also replaced the single-color LED strip with a multicolor addressable LED strip. for the same size, that meant a 5v LED strip. 12v strips are much wider.
that meant 12v->5v buck converters. 1m is about 30w so finding big enough buck converters sucks.
almost 2m of strips caused a voltage drop by the end, so i had to wire both ends to the power source.
white balance in the video is pretty off, it's white and red:
https://youtu.be/bkP0HURE6Z0
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
my factory radio takes forever to boot, so VW turns on the radio as soon as the car's unlocked and shuts it off 15 minutes after the last door is closed/locked. it's also nearly impossible to shut it down. turn-on pop is pretty bad as well. :)
as much as i like the helix dsp, i hate the director knob for day to day. first picture? director knob's in the glovebox. ��that thing. less i have to interact with the director, the better.
i replaced the radio but wanted to keep a volume knob and add carplay. sony xav-ax210 with the maestro-rr bits and bobs. adjustable button LEDs match the dash too. :)
https://agitated.net/gallery/d/17705-1/IMG_3330.jpeg
however, the radio is iso mount only and the scosche kit seats the radio pretty far back.
https://agitated.net/gallery/d/17708-1/IMG_3333.jpeg
i shaved down like 1/4" of the plastic lip and brought the radio forward. shadow makes it look off-center:
https://agitated.net/gallery/d/17711-1/IMG_3359.jpeg
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb.../IMG_3359.jpeg
so it's connected analog inputs. i've still got the usb-hec and topping d10 in the glovebox.
screen's about the same size, just don't have the massive buttons around it.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
I saw this on Nick's video interview with you from Finals. Awesome build!
Interesting that you're using the Topping D10 as opposed to the USB HEC on the Helix.. I assume you're using the Topping SPDIF coaxial output to the Helix instead. Do you find the Topping from the phone and camera adapter is better than phone direct to the HEC?
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Babs
I saw this on Nick's video interview with you from Finals. Awesome build!
Interesting that you're using the Topping D10 as opposed to the USB HEC on the Helix.. I assume you're using the Topping SPDIF coaxial output to the Helix instead. Do you find the Topping from the phone and camera adapter is better than phone direct to the HEC?
Damn, Nick did a video?
Can someone post a link to it?
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Babs
Interesting that you're using the Topping D10 as opposed to the USB HEC on the Helix.. I assume you're using the Topping SPDIF coaxial output to the Helix instead. Do you find the Topping from the phone and camera adapter is better than phone direct to the HEC?
sound is the same via usb-hec or d10.
it was a practical reason: ios 12.1-12.4/helix bug with not charging through the ck3. now that ios 13 is out, the bug is mostly gone.
d10 takes like 10 sec to boot though. :cry:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris12
Damn, Nick did a video?
Can someone post a link to it?
https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/show...8237#post48237
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nadams5755
it was a practical reason: ios 12.1-12.4/helix bug with not charging through the ck3. now that ios 13 is out, the bug is mostly gone.
Yeah I notice on my iPhone XS with that same adapter, I still get the "accessory not supported" error or whatever it was, iOS 13.. I dunno. Thought I read somewhere it was a charging issue or something to do with some phones. Gotta love Apple. I'm looking forward to getting the car tuned so I can do some decent comparisons between the iPhone/CCK/USB HEC verses the Fiio X5 Gen2 SPDIF coaxial.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Babs
Yeah I notice on my iPhone XS with that same adapter, I still get the "accessory not supported" error or whatever it was, iOS 13.. I dunno. Thought I read somewhere it was a charging issue or something to do with some phones. Gotta love Apple. I'm looking forward to getting the car tuned so I can do some decent comparisons between the iPhone/CCK/USB HEC verses the Fiio X5 Gen2 SPDIF coaxial.
Hey Nick...where do you work again? lol
Jay
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JayinMI
Hey Nick...where do you work again? lol
over at $dayjob :)
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
I just watched your video with Nick A.... Great stuff man and "widest stage ever!"
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nadams5755
over at $dayjob :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr-MffdtoME
Jay
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Really great build! Thanks for your thoughts about why you did certain things, very helpful! I can't imagine 700w to the AD's, that must be crazy?
Oh, and where abouts in SF are you, my grandma used to live in Burlingame... love the Bay Area!
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
thanks. 700w on the ADs help w/ some details and dynamics, easily hearable with timpani drums.
i live down in sanjose area.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
did a thing. put a little double-sided tape to help hold it in place. also did a little silicone caulk to ensure the wire opening's closed up.
had to pull the rear valance, ran the wire over to a gasket for license plate lights. bottom of the camera's view is my bumper edge so yay.
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb.../IMG_3402.jpeg
https://agitated.net/gallery/d/17714-1/IMG_3402.jpeg
also had to pull the hatch apart to run wire and ground(s). here's under the beauty panels, i couldn't imagine also trying to squeeze line drivers in there:
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb.../IMG_3406.jpeg
https://agitated.net/gallery/d/17717-1/IMG_3406.jpeg
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nadams5755
i picked up a sony xav-ax210 and didn't notice any sound quality changes going back and forth between the radio and d10. it's been a couple months, i could try again.
so i spent 45 minutes with it outside. different devices, same app, same flac 16b/44k content. i did the best i could to match levels by ear.
really i suppose comparing the sony's DAC+sony's opamps+helix ADC+helix DAC vs the helix's DAC.
i used meca's kirnis/spring and taylor/baker street. also used lindsey stirling's we found love on apple music. here's my observations:
d10:
- chimes and triangle in baker street are more articulate
- shaker on we found love more articulate
sony:
- better dynamics on cellos in spring
- better vocals in baker street and we found love
no staging differences, no low frequency differences.
i'm sure if i had measuring equipment, i'd see the differences and these observations would make sense
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb.../IMG_2481.jpeg
https://agitated.net/gallery/d/17731-1/IMG_2481.jpeg
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nadams5755
so i spent 45 minutes with it outside. different devices, same app, same flac 16b/44k content. i did the best i could to match levels by ear.
really i suppose comparing the sony's DAC+sony's opamps+helix ADC+helix DAC vs the helix's DAC.
i used meca's kirnis/
spring and taylor/
baker street. also used lindsey stirling's
we found love on apple music. here's my observations:
d10:
- chimes and triangle in baker street are more articulate
- shaker on we found love more articulate
sony:
- better dynamics on cellos in spring
- better vocals in baker street and we found love
no staging differences, no low frequency differences.
Based on what you've posted it seems like it's kind of a coin toss overall between the two. If so, it would come down to ergonomics for me. While all these fancy DACs, DAPs, and hugs are neat they are just too cumbersome for me. Especially when driving. Demoing someone's car is one thing but driving down the road trying to find a song on a 3 inch screen is something else altogether. If the two methods are a wash then I say go with the Sony. So, there's my unsolicited $0.02.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
daily, the director+d10 is rough. i've been using the sony 100% since i installed it. this is the first day i thought to compare them.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
That all turned out awesome. Nice work.
Jay
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
How do you compare the R3004 to the standard silk dome D3004/6020 ? I've never been clear on the advantages of ring radiator tweeters.
I love the lead sheet idea. Pods look excellent. The whole install looks excellent.
Any thoughts on why you don't like the rear fill ?
You drove 5600 miles round trip for audio competition ? Holy crap. I would have been tired of the whole hobby by the time I got there.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
i haven't compared them to the d3004s, but tweeters are mostly on-axis so i went with the RRs for extension.
rear fill is hard to get right so until i have time to play, i just leave it off. here's a couple other comments i made about it:
https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/show...ll=1#post54939
https://www.caraudiojunkies.com/show...ll=1#post54941
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
preston
You drove 5600 miles round trip for audio competition ? Holy crap. I would have been tired of the whole hobby by the time I got there.
He was. lol
Jay
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Like the build. nice and stealthy :thumbup: :proud:
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
also remade my RCA cables from stereo pairs into single channels. this let me do a left vs right channel 1200.6 while keeping my wiring neater.
made sure to get some heat shrink over the center pin. took a tip from a friend and used some forceps to stretch out the heatshrink a bit to slide over the jacket and out-folded shield and common.
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb...6A2BDCF08.jpeg
http://agitated.net/gallery/d/17767-...6A2BDCF08.jpeg
took a couple evenings, i've got nothing but time these days. made some waste:
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb...27F66FCD4.jpeg
http://agitated.net/gallery/d/17764-...27F66FCD4.jpeg
i took a break each night for an icecream sandwich:
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb...dImage%202.jpg
http://agitated.net/gallery/d/17779-1/IMG_0314.jpeg
and done. i usually use blue heatshrink to note the source/sink side but ran out. so i used yellow instead. my buddy pointed out they look like McD cables now. oh well. :)
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb.../IMG_0315.jpeg
http://agitated.net/gallery/d/17773-1/IMG_0315.jpeg
i had a chance to clean up some other wiring from the front of the car, since it's not crossing over the other side.
http://agitated.net/gallery3/var/alb...edImage-01.jpg
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Fantastic build and I enjoyed the interview at the finals. With that much power, did you have to upgrade the alternator or do anything other than a single run of 1/0ga? I know class D draws less than A/B but I didn't realize it was that much less.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
Thanks. I went up 1 group size battery, picking up 10ah of capacity. Factory alternator is 130a or so. It’s all been great.
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
This whole build is awesome! Your trunk setup looks amazing and the covers are �� I aspire to make my scion xB look this clean!
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Re: my 2012 mk6 gti build
not much else to do but tune, especially during the state of things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nadams5755
i used meca's kirnis/
spring and taylor/
baker street. also used lindsey stirling's
we found love on apple music. here's my observations:
d10:
- chimes and triangle in baker street are more articulate
- shaker on we found love more articulate
sony:
- better dynamics on cellos in spring
- better vocals in baker street and we found love
no staging differences, no low frequency differences
coming back to this. any difference w/ the high frequency articulation have been fixed w/ the ps8pro and tuning.
when i was first trying the ps8pro, i was amazed at how well it sounded compared to the helix pro mk2. for as many times as i've hit reset, rethought tuning from the ground-up, changed amps, added/removed linedrivers, and so forth, high frequencies just sort of always sounded a bit inaccurate.
high frequency attack/decay is much better on the ps8pro than the pro mk2. i guess the mk3s and ultra are supposed to sound much better but the ps8pro was a much more affordable option. also, no more director. :)
