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2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Hello again friends :D
It's that time again, another build log from the notorious not gonna finish it - chithead. Let's start with some pictures of the car first:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psnefljnry.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pspjgg4ajt.jpg
And the heart of the whole install, or beast of it all - the infamous UConnect 8.4a:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psqertq7pl.jpg
Knew right away, that has to stay. It controls too many parts of the car, to even consider replacing. So, how do we work with it? Have read some pretty poor reviews where others have tried to grab signal, noise afterwards, etc... but what the heck. Have to hold some glimmer of hope, there has to be a way to work with it, right?
My first thoughts were of course, which processor, what amps? Lightbulb. Already have a trio of Zapco DC amps collecting dust. Might as well put them to good use. Not really wanting to go with a bazillion watt setup right now anyways, so these should be perfect. But, there is a problem... the logos are green! And I don't mean neon, or grass, or swampwater green, nooooooo. It's sage/hunter/winter/chicken/baby poop green!
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psrdxwq0hy.jpg
First thing first. That has to go. Amps are black... logos are green... car is white with blacktop package... lots of black accents on white car... black amps... white logos? Yeah!
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pswcbtw6be.jpg
Nooooooooo... that has to go!
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psnripezy7.jpg
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Ok, no focusing on speaker choice yet. Still debating on two different paths with that. For now, let's just focus on getting the signal to the amps, and utilizing those. After two weeks of research, a duh huh moment from papacueball led me to say, what the heck. Nothing to it but to do it. So with a trim tool and two fir tree clips, we pop off this under dash piece:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pshxjgfjlp.jpg
After that is removed, and looking up near the OBD port to the left side of the car, beware... for right above the emergency brake pedal, the factory amplifier lurks in the shadows:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pscioxjxt8.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psgddpsb8v.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pspeietkhi.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psxods8zjy.jpg
Alright, so we have the amp location, where to grab signal from, wire colors, but now what? Still haven't located a diagram to determine which wires are what. Another super member here, pocket5s, was very helpful, but still up against a wall... until this beauty appeared upon the browser for which I view the glorious findings of the interweb:
http://www.caraudiojunkies.com/attac...8&d=1462603040
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
A glimmer of hope has been revealed! Onward, my friends! My thought was this. Need a way to grab signal, but also go back to stock if desired. Another shout out to papacueball for the idea here. Ordered a pair of 20-pin PSU extension cables from eBay:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pszizeedow.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psh5l9uvqt.jpg
This will provide plenty of pins for anything I would hope to achieve. Cut those in half in preparation for this project:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pslavdym6z.jpg
That's right. Ballers assemble this type of complication on their kid's Thomas the Tank Engine table. Boom. The Zapco high level adapters prepped:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pspaicivtx.jpg
Each adapter gets a bright color, and the black are for the grounds:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psq0kgbsmz.jpg
Went ahead and assembled the adapters for the OEM speaker wires:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psttnwbzo3.jpg
Here is the completed harness for getting signal to the Zapcos:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pso0fjozu2.jpg
Getting ready to start cutting:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps1vccmfvs.jpg
And here is everything cut, stripped, soldered, and shrank:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps2w4kdmot.jpg
A diagram I made to make it easier to follow upon installation:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pscoctczgf.jpg
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
The way I understand it is this. Dash speakers on these cars with the Alpine six speaker setup, play from 400Hz and up. Door speakers play 400Hz and down. Rears are supposed to be a full range signal. EVERYONE that does an install in these cars grabs signal from the rear speakers for their subs. With a tone generator and my ear, I couldn't hear full range from them. Sounded like about a 80Hz roll-off. So, I went ahead and added a second Door input for the amps (Door2). This way, if there is indeed a roll off on the rear speakers, then can just swap a Symbilink cable from Rear, to Door2, and voila! Also, if I decided to sum signal of the Door and Rear to raise the crossover point from 400Hz on the woofers, can add another Symbilink cable, and let the DC amp combine the signals together.
This explains why the Zapco adapters are labeled:
DASH
DOOR
REAR
DOOR2
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Oh, this is inspiration from my good friend Glenn :D:D:D
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psx8wboszq.jpg
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Some random pictures. Pretty neat to have the battery here:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psfapvglsh.jpg
Got a pretty cool idea on how to grab power and grounds:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pswkmxlthp.jpg
Checked the Zapco Symbilink cable lengths too, should be ok :thumbup:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps7zhka7q3.jpg
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Nice. I like the PSU extension idea.
Jay
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Thank you! I have to admit, they were cheap, and I have to believe price reflects performance. While stripping all of the wires, one of the purple ends broke off. It wasn't a necessity, as the car only has six speakers, but it has given me an over sense of worry. Terrified that it could happen again, just plugging and unplugging the harnesses. Or even while driving, just from the road conditions. Glenn suggested adding a silicone adhesive around each wire in the connectors as a precautionary measure. Found some yesterday that will hopefully work well, just have to add that to them soon.
Sketching out ideas for the amp rack/subwoofer enclosure securement right now. Thinking the middle section of the trunk floor just needs replaced with a custom piece. Should be the easiest method, and still provide all the security and safety one could wish for.
The biggest debate, is whether to use the Ultimo 12 sealed, or try IB for the first time with those GZ 15's. REALLY leaning towards the IB setup. Especially if 8" woofers fit in these doors, the way I've seen them squeezed into previous year model Challengers. Fingers crossed, won't know for sure until a door panel comes off.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Sherlock chithead has a nice ring to it! That is some sweet work.
What is the connector/terminal/? that you are using to grab power and grounds?
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Hah! The ring terminals with the blue and yellow heatshrink? They are just grounds. Those Zapco adapters have an extra ground wire for additional noise rejection, thought I'd make provisions available just in case.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chithead
Hah! The ring terminals with the blue and yellow heatshrink? They are just grounds. Those Zapco adapters have an extra ground wire for additional noise rejection, thought I'd make provisions available just in case.
I was ambiguously asking about the black box that is just downstream of the battery. That is a Zapco piece?
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pswkmxlthp.jpg
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Ohhhh that piece ^^^ it's just a clamp to secure the wire bundle and power wire up to the underhood fuse box. Not sure at all about the other piece right in front of the spare tire.
I'm going to grab power from the positive terminal and the fuse box near the battery, and then ground to the negative terminal and the chassis location right next to the battery.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
I never could figure out what that was either. It just slides on there tho. I moved mine over a tad, closer to the other piece.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
If I had to guess, I'd say it's an accelerometer for the SRS ststem...or maybe a CO2 sensor
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Crazy stuff for sure. That battery voltage sensor on the negative terminal really burst my bubble too. Was hoping to put some Stinger terminals to good use, but oh well. They can go towards the Ram build :thumbup:
Messed around a bit checking for possible clearance in the doors. Had a 6x9" adapter from the Legacy, was curious if there was any chance some Eton Symphony 8" could fit.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps81nzdnx8.jpg
Hmmmm...
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psbuzu4yn2.jpg
Looks to be 1 1/8" from where the basket touches the cutout:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psbqh3mfvo.jpg
If you account for excursion and such, I figure 2" is the absolute minimum space required to mount these:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pspsfde6af.jpg
Good news is, I've seen Hybrid Legatia L8 and Illusion Audio 8" woofers mounted into previous year model Challengers, so there is definitely hope that it could work.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Starting to ponder more about aiming for the midranges and tweeters. Have a set of dome midranges that could work in the factory locations, but if going with a 4" cone mid, I'm assuming they would need to be more on-axis, possibly low down in the pillars, close to the dash.
Any thoughts/opinions/advice?
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psh1v8ed3n.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps71kyne1s.jpg
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
just because it is a 4" doesn't mean it has to be on axis. Is the oem still a 3"?
a tweeter in the pillar and a 3 or 4 in the oem can work quite well. You shouldn't need to build pods unless you just wanted to.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
No, I really did not want to build pods at all. Currently have a set of Morel CDM88 dome mids, but was debating on grabbing those Morel/Xtant 4" point source from Hic to try a lower crossover point. The domes wouldn't require any trimming to fit though
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
My Charger had the beginnings of an offset 4" coax in the dash location. I moved it back and on a 45* angle with a tunnel around it to help guide the wave. Never got completed but that was my direction.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Tried some adhesive today on those connectors. Seems to be holding well, definitely offered peace of mind that the wires might stay put now:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pshg0sqgck.jpg
Tried this Loctite stuff because it specifically stated being useful for vinyl and plastic both.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Not much progress on the Challenger this weekend. Spent most of it preparing for a new position at work starting Monday, and putting together things for Mom's Forester build.
Did have an hour though to mess around with communication cables for the Zapcos. Found some ethernet cable on sale at Lowe's, black connectors on eBay for pretty cheap, and used up some leftover heatshrink and techflex:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pswr6ffgph.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psz0eoyi7i.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psxovdocab.jpg
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Those look nicer than my Zapco black flat 80s phone cables, for sure! lol How much per foot? :D
Good job.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Thank you :) I'll send you a PM, can definitely hook you up if desired.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Glad to see you have motivation for a car you obviously love!
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
That, is probably the truest statement ever. :D:D:D
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Had some time this weekend to work some more. Finally fixed the harness. That adhesive is working very well. Too well actually, stuck two of the plugs together. Had a heck of a time getting them separated again. Needed to though, as I kinda had to repair the main output harness because of sorta wiring it wrong. Lesson learned, and note to others trying to save time. Do not attempt to assemble half a harness, while sitting on the toilet. There is too many other things to focus on, than trying to line up wires, twist, make sure the heatshrink is on first, etc. So yeah, it's fixed. Had everything swapped far as sides, and phase. So left was right, right was left, and all positives were negatives, negatives were positives. But it's fixed! Back the way it should be.
Cut some speaker wire to length, just trying to get a head start on things:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psqrmssqtl.jpg
Got the dash apart to try out some speaker placement:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psfektg8sq.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psqohkkdum.jpg
Rode around for a day with the domes swapped in, and ohhhh boy. That placement is about perfect. Couldn't ask for a better stage far as height. Was wide as heck though, thinking it is going to take a few tricks to narrow that up a bit. Which is why when it came to tweeter time, I found moving them inward of the midrange, it was better. I know this goes against logic and proper teachings and thinking and such. But it really did help. I guess the windshield reflections of this car are causing a massive dispersion pattern, and having the tweeters more towards the middle helped keep all the cymbals and such from being way outside the mirrors, especially when the snares were more towards the middle.
But... a new problem arrived. While listening to some Oscar Peterson Trio, I could hear a distortion in one of the domes. It was just on certain tones, and especially when there was a lot of musical activity going on, but it was there. Thought I would skip to some other tracks from the Focal discs, as maybe this was just a bad MP3 file that I had from years back. Rarely heard it again, but could barely tell it was still there. Tried Dire Straits, ohhh yeah. Still there. At this point I'm wondering if the midrange has gone bad, or if it's too low a crossover point? So the idea occurs, Metallica. And Justice For All. If you're gonna have distortion, that disc will expose it in a hurry. And ohhh lawdy. It was bad. But it sounds more like a resonant distortion, versus a bad speaker? I don't know if that makes sense. Swapped out the dome and tried the factory speaker, and a few other small drivers, even the Morel tweeter, and didn't hear that again. Which tells me it's definitely the speaker. Could it really be a bad speaker? Perhaps was overdriven in the past and has some coil rub? I dunno. Scratching my head on this one.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
why would you not want width?
and once you put the pillars back on, that width with shrink up.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
It was just weird. Didn't seem natural to have the drum kit so far apart like that, especially when 90% of one is within a six foot circle.
But you're right, I didn't try with the pillars back on. Did try the tweeters up near the pillars, which is where I would normally put them, and couldn't tell any difference between there, and in the dash, inward of the midrange, but closer to the edge and further from the windshield. When pushed closer to the glass, the sound was way too, "bright."
I'm kind of a noob though when it comes to tuning. Always happy for help in understanding how it is supposed to sound :thumbup:
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
This is the locations I am talking about, red circle with thumbups sounded gooooood for the tweeter. Thumbsdown was baaaaaad.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psx41y1qay.jpg
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chithead
Makes sense that the location further away from the windshield sounds better with such an extreme windshield angle. The thing with the mid is weird, I hope it's not bad.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Thank you sir, I'm still wondering if it's crossover related. The housings on those domes have cracks in them right by the wires, which I knew when purchasing from eBay. But when testing in the Legacy, really don't remember hearing this distortion. I thought maybe it was where I redid the harness, perhaps some wires were shorting out, but double checked everything, nothing pushed through the heatshrink, can't see any issues with that, plus the noise wasn't there with three other speakers.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Have you tried swapping between left and right speakers to see if the distortion follows it?
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
Hmm... Didn't try that. I'll try swapping the domes and see if it's channel related. You thinking the domes are picking up on something that the other speakers couldn't?
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
You can do it by wires too, not having to swap the speakers from side to side. Unless of course you think it's something with the install location vibrating on the driver.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
I do wonder about that ^^^ Yes sir. Wondering if there is something vibrating in the dash at a certain frequency.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
That's what I'm thinking. If you swap the drivers and the issue stays on the same side, then you know the speaker is still good.
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
This right here.. Why I never did a build log.. You'll have this thing winning before I even get one project piece done. :) haha! Lookin' good and dang sexay ride man!
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
400hz buzzed in my dash setup. I ended up putting some ccf on the underside of the cover to stop it.
But by the pics you have the cover on yet
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: 2016 Challenger R/T Plus
So, I've tried a number of different drivers, including the domes again, and it's not the speakers. Appears to be the recordings. With songs I know are higher quality, there is no distortion apparent. On some songs that I have off a portable hard drive, these were passed around among who knows how many people. Pretty sure they aren't the highest quality you can get anymore. So perhaps this could be the cause of that distortion? Saw a video on YouTube once where a guy uploaded a video, then downloaded it, then uploaded it again, over and over 1000 times just to show the degradation of digital media. It was pretty bad, by the time it reached 1000, wasn't even 240p resolution anymore. Just a bunch of square blocks with laser beam garble for audio. Surprised Kanye hasn't copied it yet for one of his, "hit" singles. :rolleyes:
Decided to finally use some bullet connectors I've had laying around. But... my little $13 soldering iron from 10 years ago just couldn't heat the connectors enough to melt the solder. My parents must have felt sorry for me, because they showed me a receipt the other day for a Hakko FX-888D Soldering Station! How cool is that. Said it was a Father's Day gift. Very awesome indeed. Can't wait to try it out.
Here are the connectors where I tried to attach them:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psaw8qweqn.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pszmweyodm.jpg
Will update more on those once we have a proper heating source.
On another note, recently received the coolest addition to this whole install:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psfzqaeima.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...pseroersmv.jpg
A Zapco DC1100.1!!! Now this bad boy will power that Ultimo 12 proper like:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...psag4v8kcl.jpg
Can't wait to get cracking on this car again soon.