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Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Hello everyone, I'm interested in buying my first DSP for the system I'll be putting into my car, and I'm pretty much set on a Helix DSP Mini. It should suit my needs for the foreseeable future since I'm only running a sub and a front stage (currently will use my existing 2 channel amp, with the component set's passive crossover, but may eventually get a 4 channel amp to go active in the future). I plan to use toslink for input into the DSP.
This DSP has sent the budget for my build significantly higher than I'd originally intended, but I think it's a decent investment in the long run versus buying something cheaper and then having to troubleshoot issues.
Where would you buy one if you are in the US?
I see there's an ebay seller that has them for $450 US shipped from Austria (~$480 after tax), but there also appear to be several international shops that have them as well, including on amazon.de.
Is it possible to get one in the US for less than the price of that ebay seller? I'd also want to be sure I had some kind of manufacturer warranty, given the cost of the unit.
To go along with this, I'll probably end up getting a UMIK-1 to hook up to a laptop for the calibration. I'm new to DSPs, but this seems like the best way to go... plus I can use it for the couple of systems I have in my house as well. :)
Thanks for any help you can offer.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Personally, I'd go with a DSP.3 at a minimum for future expansion. 6 channels runs out quick and mid-bass, mid and tweet is becoming very common for front stage, even in stock systems these days.
Search for a dealer near you. I would not buy from an unauthorized dealer, which all ebay are not.
https://www.msc-america.com/dealer-locator/
If you don't have one close, you could contact Skizer here and he can order one for you.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrwalte
Personally, I'd go with a DSP.3 at a minimum for future expansion. 6 channels runs out quick and mid-bass, mid and tweet is becoming very common for front stage, even in stock systems these days.
Search for a dealer near you. I would not buy from an unauthorized dealer, which all ebay are not.
https://www.msc-america.com/dealer-locator/
If you don't have one close, you could contact Skizer here and he can order one for you.
Thanks for the input. The DSP.3 is out of my price range if the $700 price tag I'm seeing around the internet is accurate. To put the budget into perspective, I am installing mostly reused parts from my previous system (almost all from 2008) into an 11 year old vehicle I bought just last year. I'll be installing the JBL P660C set I took out of my old car (purchased new in 2017), along with a Fi Q 12" subwoofer in a custom sealed box. For amps I'll be using my old reliable Kicker ZX200.2 and ZX750.1 from ~2008. The head unit will be something more modern.
After researching for months and getting fed up with the current state of the head unit market, I was going to do this install for under $100 by reusing everything I already had (including repairing my old Kenwood X491 from ~2006), but I eventually figured out a setup that seemed to make sense for me, but was way more expensive than I'd originally intended. The Helix DSP Mini would be, for me, a huge expenditure. I can only justify it because it's something that will easily move from vehicle to vehicle in the future. I like to keep my stuff for years. :)
I live in the middle of nowhere in northern Pennsylvania, so there aren't any authorized dealers near me. I was hoping to just buy one online if possible. If I can't do that, I'll probably just have to give up on the Helix and buy a Dayton DSP-408 and a spdif DAC. Saves me $350+... I just hope I don't have some of the noise problems that others have reported with them. I was also really hoping to have a pure digital signal all the way to the DSP.
What is the going rate for a Helix DSP Mini or DSP.3 in the US if ordered from an authorized dealer?
Alternatively, I would certainly buy used but the price has to be worth not having any kind of warranty.
Thank you again for your time!
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Contact Neibur3 on here or Diyma. He's a Helix dealer.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Ive bought from Neibur3 before, good guy.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Thanks guys. I sent Niebur3 and Skizer PMs. Just waiting to hear back now.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jdunk54nl
That's an option, but I've read a lot more praise for the Helix. I also need toslink for spidf and I'd rather not use converters if possible. I don't like adding more points of failure.
This is one of the main reasons I haven't just gone with the Dayton 408 since I'd need a toslink DAC in the chain as well.
I still haven't heard back from anyone about the Helix pricing or availability, but that's probably just due to the three day weekend. I did find a guy selling a used DSP Mini that is willing to ship. I'm a bit leery because I know there's always a risk, plus there is no warranty... but for under $250 plus shipping, it's certainly better than the $500 it costs (including shipping and tax) to get one from Europe. I'd honestly prefer new though.... just for the peace of mind.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
It's been a couple days and I still haven't heard back from either user about buying a Helix DSP.
Is there some other way to contact these guys? Send me a PM if you need to.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
I texted Niebur3 for you... he'll be in touch.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaveG
I texted Niebur3 for you... he'll be in touch.
Thank you. I'm still waiting to hear from someone... patiently. :)
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ozzuneoj
Thank you. I'm still waiting to hear from someone... patiently. :)
Jerry's (Niebur3) been busy but I heard from him this morning and he asked I pass his number on to you - (402)598-1725.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
That is definitely the thing that I dislike the most about Helix - the sales model. Supposedly, they don't allow "online sales", but obviously that is not really true as people are still buying and selling them "online" - it's just that your choices of who you can buy from online are VERY limited - and you just have to play this silly "hush, hush" game when you do it.
I *really* wish that I could just go to Crutchfield, research the different models and pricing - and just buy the damn equipment quickly and easily - without trying to track certain people down (like in this case).
<end rant>
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Thanks for the phone number. Seems a little weird to me to have to call someone from a message board to purchase something from an authorized dealer. Does Jerry work at a shop? Can I simply go to his shop's website?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jtrosky
That is definitely the thing that I dislike the most about Helix - the sales model. Supposedly, they don't allow "online sales", but obviously that is not really true as people are still buying and selling them "online" - it's just that your choices of who you can buy from online are VERY limited - and you just have to play this silly "hush, hush" game when you do it.
I *really* wish that I could just go to Crutchfield, research the different models and pricing - and just buy the damn equipment quickly and easily - without trying to track certain people down (like in this case).
<end rant>
Yeah, I have to say this is about the strangest thing I've seen in a while. I'm not sure why Helix (or the US distributor, MSC) make it so hard to buy this stuff. I bought my subwoofer, custom-to-order, directly from Fi's website back in 2008 and that was a very smooth process. I don't need to buy from a huge retailer... I just want to get a decent price on a piece of equipment with a warranty without having to jump through hoops or feel like I'm buying something out of the back of a van in an alley.
Again, I don't know what the marketing angle of this is, but all it has done for me is given me time to consider alternatives. I'm actually building my system now and I still don't have the DSP... which I'm going to need to get multiple channels out of a toslink cable.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Problem is, it's only ever local shops MSC seems to deal with. And they aren't going to create a store front for you to buy from online. Maybe large online retailers like Crutchfield want too much profit margin for MSC to agree with.
Have you tried calling MSC? Saying you have no dealers close to you and what can you do to buy one?
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
I think audiotec fischer and msc think it’s very easy to screw up dsp stuff, theirs is no exception. It also takes a lot to integrate a dsp properly. They want to be able to provide support to those people who purchase their products. By only allowing local sales, you always have support if needed. The few online people, they trust to provide support if needed.
They probably know that this is costing them sales, but also less returns and less issues.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Dont worry about buying from Jerry. He is an honest dealer.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
You gotta know the special knock!!!:wink:
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Thanks for the input guys. I found a shop about 2 hours drive from me that is an MSC dealer and they say they can order a Helix DSP Mini for $500 + tax... which is quite high for my budget and the features it includes. For example, I don't get a remote or bluetooth control and as mentioned by others it is fairly limited with only 6 output channels. I have no intention of "needing" more channels any time soon, but for the price it's hard to ignore that limitation.
Alternatively, the same shop has Audio Dynamics DSP68 units in stock for $400. Those come with bluetooth and a remote with 8 channels of output and still maintain the 31 band EQ on channels 1-6 and optical input.
The price is still on the high side for me, but considering it would cost nearly $250 for the outrageously priced Helix add-ons just to get similar controls, and that would still have less channels... the AD DSP68 seems like a good value. BUT, the big question is how do they actually compare when it comes to sound quality, reliability and software usability? Features and specs on paper definitely don't tell the whole story.
Has anyone used an Audio Dynamics DSP? How do they compare to Helix, MiniDSP or others?
Also, is it possible to import settings from REW into the Helix or Audio Dynamics software? I just started learning REW and it seems really nice. I bought a calibrated UMIK-1 from CSA and it was delivered yesterday. I'll be using it on all the speakers in my house now. :D
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ozzuneoj
Also, is it possible to import settings from REW into the Helix or Audio Dynamics software? I just started learning REW and it seems really nice. I bought a calibrated UMIK-1 from CSA and it was delivered yesterday. I'll be using it on all the speakers in my house now. :D
I'm not sure about Audio Dynamics, but with the Helix you can import REW EQ filter files
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Best advice, play with all of the softwares (you can download minidsp and helix software without having the devices). See which one you can use the best. Then buy that one.
I do not see some options in the screen shot for the audio dynamics (Input eq, Group time delay, all pass filters, some of the center channel algorithms, differential rear fill, etc) that you can use in the minidsp and helix options. Some of the minidsp options do require software upgrades, but these are relatively cheap.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
I'm playing with some of the software right now to see how they work.
For a "decent sound quality" setup like mine (with okay but not high-end equipment) are there features\adjustments that a Helix DSP (specifically Mini) would provide that are just not possible with other cheaper options?
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ozzuneoj
I'm playing with some of the software right now to see how they work.
For a "decent sound quality" setup like mine (with okay but not high-end equipment) are there features\adjustments that a Helix DSP (specifically Mini) would provide that are just not possible with other cheaper options?
100% yes. Doesn't matter the system. There are things that helix (and minidsp to that point) does that makes any system better. The cheaper ones that just do basic para eq, crossovers, and time alignment are good and better than nothing. But in reality you need more than that for most systems, especially if you are installing and using other factory components like factory head units or tying in after factory amps.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Advantage to Helix is it comes with an Auto T/A and Auto EQ feature. Don't even need REW if you don't want. However, I can't say if the mini supports these features. It might have to be DSP.3 or better.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jdunk54nl
100% yes. Doesn't matter the system. There are things that helix (and minidsp to that point) does that makes any system better. The cheaper ones that just do basic para eq, crossovers, and time alignment are good and better than nothing. But in reality you need more than that for most systems, especially if you are installing and using other factory components like factory head units or tying in after factory amps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrwalte
Advantage to Helix is it comes with an Auto T/A and Auto EQ feature. Don't even need REW if you don't want. However, I can't say if the mini supports these features. It might have to be DSP.3 or better.
Are Auto T/A and Auto EQ the only significant differences?
Other than convenience, what benefits do the Auto T/A and Auto EQ bring over setting things to match REW measurements?
I guess I'm just wondering where the point of diminishing returns is with this stuff. I'm not using high end speakers (currently using a component set with a passive crossover because my amp is only 2x100w), and I may at some point upgrade, but the price difference for Helix gear is quite high when you figure in basic accessories to switch presets without having to crawl into the trunk.
I don't doubt that a Helix DSP is an awesome piece of equipment, it just feels like the prices are being deliberately kept high (dealers openly saying they aren't allowed to ship to the market of competing dealers) and massively overpriced accessories ($100 for a box with two knobs and a button), simply because there's no other choice.
I guess my biggest gripe is that I don't see any indication that there is any way to control the device (wifi or bluetooth) without buying something or pressing the single button on the unit itself (in the trunk). I see they have a Wifi control app for Helix DSPs, but it looks like it requires an adapter, and I'm sure it's at least $150.
Don't get me wrong, I still think Helix is the best quality option, but it is nearly double the price with controls.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
These are some of the things minidsp and helix offer. This list is not an end all.
Input eq, Group time delay, all pass filters, some of the center channel algorithms, differential rear fill, etc
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Honestly, I feel that "extra" features of the Helix DSP's are even *more* useful with less-than-optimal equipment! :-) The "extras" can actually help you overcome the limitations of "lesser" systems.
Personally, I really like the Helix Augmented Bass Processing, as well as the ClarityXpander feature. Allpass filters are nice to have as well. I don't use auto-time-alignment or auto-EQ as I feel that I can get better results manually, but it's there for a "quick" tune if needed.
But the biggest thing about Helix, IMO - is that the software just "makes sense". At least to me, it's so much easier to use - and they are *constantly* updating it - and it's the same software for ALL of their DSPs, which is nice. A lot of times you'll buy a DSP and may not ever see a software update for your specific device. The DSR-1, for example, has some horrible issues - yet, they haven't updated the software in years. The issues will never be fixed - it's a "dead end" product.
I am, however, completely with you in that $250 to add wifi to a DSP that should be wifi-capable from the factory, is crazy. At this price point, wifi should be included, IMO. That being said, you don't *need* wifi - you can tune it via a USB cable if you want. The URC-3 "box with two dials" is only about $70, if I remember correctly - but you really don't need it either. I have a DSP.3 and don't use a URC remote. I use my subs knob to control the sub and use my OEM head-unit to control volume - really don't need any other controls.
Yes, they are a pain to buy - and they (and their accessories) are expensive - but the Helix DSP's are *so* much better, IMO. It's a one-time cost. A good DSP is really the "brains" of your system - and not something that I would compromise too much on. I started with a DSR-1 because I didn't need a "high end" DSP - but it was all wasted time and aggravation that I could have avoided if I just bought the Helix to begin with. All to save $200 or $300 on a system that I've put thousands into....
Just my two cents. :-)
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
I appreciate the the input jtrosky.
I wish I could find a cheap(er) used one at least.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
If you have time to wait, one is bound to come up over on DIYMA or here... I had an "extra" DSP.3, but just recently sold it to a friend for $400+shipping (believe it or not, I actually found it in Ebay for that price - was like brand new - couldn't pass it up, even though I didn't *really* need it). I was going to keep it as a "spare", but my friend had a need for one, so I let him have it. They do come up every once in a while - just have to be patient (easier said than done, I know!).
If you have the time, give it a few weeks - I'm sure that one will come up for sale. Maybe post a "WTB" (Wanted to buy) thread - someone might have one they are willing to let go.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
I don't want to say that you have unrealistic expectations on pricing necessarily, but as Helix is a european brand, it would be unlikely that you would find it cheaper in the US than in Europe (like the Austrian ebay seller mentioned).
So if the ebay seller charge $450, and you can get one from a local, authorized dealer with warranty for $500, then you're getting a great deal for the extra $50. Full warranty and support. If you feel this is keeping pricing deliberately high then so be it. For reference the retail on a DSP Mini over here in Norway is equal to 446USD. (Look up prices on Focal in the US vs Europe, they're not +10% like Helix, but +100% or more on certain models ;) )
Well that was about the pricing in different markets. If it's worth it to you is a different matter off course. But as mentioned by others, you don't need any extras to make it work, you do all the settings via pc and the usb cable in included. Sure you could add a wifi transmitter for convenience, but it's far from a necessary component to get it to work. I've usually laid up a long usb cable from the dsp to the glovebox, and just pull it out to connect to the pc when doing any adjustments.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
I understand what you're saying Haakono. I found a guy on Facebook saying he could get one for me new for $399, which is why the $499 price from a shop caught me off guard.
The total cost for me would include some kind of remote for switching between presets, because my awesome wife is totally okay with me doing all of this. She appreciates good sound. She can't wait for me to at least get the sub in our current car. We miss it. So, the least I can do is have a preset for her listening position when she's riding in the car. Having to get into the trunk and open the amp compartment to push a button sounds pretty lame for a $500 unit. And is worth mentioning that $500 isn't a drop in the bucket for us like it is for many here. I like to get the best bang for the buck, long term.
I'll keep my eyes open for a deal though. :)
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
You used to be able to save a significant amount by buying from one of the Ebay sellers, but now it's not really much cheaper at all. For example, I bought my original DSP.3 from the audio_for_fun seller on Ebay - it was only $535 shipped. Now, they want like $599+$50 shipping - so you are only saving about $50 over new from a US-based authorized reseller. Just not worth it to save $50, being that you'd have to go through the Ebay seller for any warranty issues. I was willing to take the risk for $535 vs $700, but not for $650 vs $700...
I find it very rare to need warranty service on electronics during the warranty period. It's usually either DOA out-of-the-box or it works fine for years. I don't think that I've ever had to have an electronic item serviced while under warranty... EVER.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
If the Ebay seller you're talking about is audio_for_fun, I've bought several things from him, and always had a good experience.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Can anyone explain the differences between the DSP2 and DSP3? I can't seem to find anything directly comparing the two and it's probably far more likely that I'll find a good deal on a second hand dsp2.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
I think that the main difference is that the DSP.3 is based on the newer ACO-based hardware - which gives it a lot of the "extras", such as the ability to use the mobile app (which does everything the director does - but requires a wifi adapter to work), the Augmented Bass Processing, RealCenter, StageXpander, ClarityXpander etc.
Otherwise, I'm sure that they are pretty comparable. The DSP.3 also probably has slightly better specs, but I doubt any would make a significant difference.
I *think* they have the same inputs/outputs, but I didn't check - you can check that on the AF site to be sure.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Well, that was quicker than expected.
I just found someone selling a DSP.2 in excellent condition with the box, manual and cables for $300 plus shipping. It is being packed up now for $315 shipped and the seller is super cool to talk to and has lots of positive feedback on the marketplace.
Going by the ebay sold prices for the older models (even the DSP 1), I think I did pretty well here. What do you guys think?
I highly doubt I'll miss any of the differences between the DSP2 and the newer models. There doesn't seem to be an English page on the Audiotec Fischer website for this model anymore so I can't directly compare them.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Nice! Yes, I'm sure that you'll be very happy with the DSP.2. It's SO much better than anything else you can get for $300! That was a good deal - I think that you've saved yourself a lot of future grief with going with such a good DSP and skipping the lesser DSPs!
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Glad to hear that!
This deal feels much better to me. I always try to buy the best bang for the buck... and that frequently involves getting something really good at a price far below MSRP. Spending $500-$600 outright for a device I have zero experience with is... not the way I usually do things. :D
The ZX750.1 and ZX200.2 I've been using for 13 years were actually both purchased as refurbished from Kicker and were an awesome price at the time. I've probably paid like $12 per year for that 750. ;)
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Well... the seller also has a Zapco ST-2B 2 channel amp he'd throw in for $50 more...
I don't know if I have room for all of this where I plan to install it, but I could possibly go active if I added that amp. :o
That seems like quite a good price, but I should probably just save the money and put it toward a proper 4-channel amp later. The way I'm wiring the car (crossovers will be in the back with the amps) will make it super easy to switch to active later.
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Re: Where should I buy a Helix DSP Mini in the US?
Depending on how far you go down the rabbit hole, you may eventually want to just replace your main amp and the DSP.2 with a Helix amp/DSP combo device, such as the V-Eight Mk2. The Helix DSP's hold their value very well, so you'll always be able to sell the DSP.2 if you ever decide to upgrade in the future. In hindsight, I kind of wish that I would have went with the Helix V-Eight Mk2 over the separate JL XD600/6v2 (6-channel amp) and Helix DSP.3 - but when I started all of this, I had never even heard of Helix. :-) The V-Eight Mk2 would have just made for a much cleaner install.
The only thing that Helix doesn't have is a dsp/amp combo device that is also capable of powering your sub. JL and AudioControl have devices like that. but Helix doesn't - in fact, it's the reason why some people go with JL or AudioControl over Helix - simply because they have options that will power all of your "regular" speakers, your sub *and* act as the DSP as well - all in a single device. With Helix, you will need a separate sub amp.
If/when I ever have issues with my JL 6-channel amp or my DSP.3, I will probably replace them with the V-Eight Mk2. With my system, the Helix "virtual channels" feature would be nice to have ("virtual channels" are only supported on the newer DSPs and amp/DSP combo devices - the Helix DSP.3 doesn't support "virtual channels").
Welcome to the Helix club though! I think that you'll find that you made a great decision. You easily have the best DSP you can get for $300. Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any Helix/tuning-related questions - lots of people with a lot of experience here.