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2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
http://i.imgur.com/6j6sOPTh.jpg
Today I picked up my new car. It looks great and I wouldn't be surprised to learn had it been garaged it's whole life. Everything at the dealer went super smooth, I was in and out in about 90 minutes, including the test drive. As soon as I let the clutch out I knew I was right in wanting one of these cars. What a wonderful piece of machinery to drive!
On the way home I plugged in my phone and turned on the stereo. At first I was like, "Ok, I can deal with this." It wasn't fantastic sounding, but wasn't absolute shit. Then a song with a little bit of bass came on, and at even a moderate volume, it didn't take much for everything to fall apart. The bass pulled enough power to destroy everything else.
I was going to leave it alone for awhile, but it's too terrible to do that. I don't want to get all crazy with it, mostly just drop in stuff. Lucky for me, it's not a Bose system, so it should be fairly easy to work on.
I have a bunch of gear laying around. Throwing my 800PRS in is a no-brainer. Perhaps running it in network mode off the internal amp is all I'll need to hold me over for awhile. If I need more power, I can easily add an amp.
There is pretty much no room for subs. Some people have put a single 8 in the passenger foots well, but I'm not looking to lose any passenger space. Like the rest of the car, the trunk is tiny. Even worse, it's pretty much sealed off from the rest of the car, so good luck getting any bass into the passenger area. That pretty much leaves sacrificing the storage bins behind the seats. There is a shop in Florida that made a box for 2 8's that went in the soft top storage area, and the top was still able to fully fold up, so that's an idea.
For the rest of the speakers, I have to mock it up, but it looks like horns will fit. The doors should fit 8's pretty easily. Perhaps something like the Silver Flutes could play from 50-ish all the way up to the horns and I could go without subs. I'm not looking for crazy loud, so that could work and it would be awfully nice to only have one amp to hide.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Behind the passenger seat?
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
You can do very deep beefy door speakers in those. The bose option put 8's in the doors. You might be able to get enough bass to be happy from there
Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tnaudio
You can do very deep beefy door speakers in those. The bose option put 8's in the doors. You might be able to get enough bass to be happy from there
I was happy to see that in my research. The key is to find an 8 that can play well from at least 1200Hz and down, and do it fairly well. The other option would be to use a small speaker in the factory tweeter location and make it a 3-way setup. With the crossover limitations in the 800PRS, I'd need something that could easily reach 250Hz. That doesn't leave too many options, and the GB25 is at the top of that list, with maybe the Illusion 3 at the top of that list too. With the 3-way setup, I could run the horns off the deck and still keep it to a single 4-channel amp for simplicity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
slade1274
Behind the passenger seat?
There isn't much room behind the seats. A few people have cut up the panel behind the seats and fit 8's in there with some fiberglass work.
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It didn't take long to start ordering parts:
Metra Dash Kit
Metra Harness
Metra ASWC-1 Steering Wheel control adaptor
Pro-Clip Phone Mount
1 Foot long HDMI Cable
Used Steering Wheel
New Brake Switch
So, a few items need to be explained. I purposely got a no-option car because I'm just not a fan how hard it can be to replace failing electronic bits when a car gets old. The other problem is with they way the factory bundles options. Check one box to get a feature you want, and suddenly you wind up with a feature you don't want, and I don't want nanny features, like traction/stability control. So in my case, I looked for a car with as few options as I could find.
One feature I did want is cruise control. I did the research, and cruise control was a $500 option when the car was new. A 2009-1025 MX-5 has a Dive By Wire throttle body, all the wiring for cruise control, and every ECU is already programmed for Cruise Control. So to add Cruise Control, all you have to do is remove the blank trim pieces from the steering wheel and replace them with the trim pieces with switches, getting a used steering wheel is the easiest way to get the switches. I found one on Ebay for $50. The only other difference is the brake switch. The car with factory Cruise have a 4-pin switch, two high current for the brake lights, and two low current for the Cruise. The non-Cruise cars have a 2-pin switch. A new 4-pin switch is less than $20 and drops right in.
The Cruise switches also come with radio controls, so I got the adaptor to make them control the 800PRS. The only catch is, the Metra wiring harness doesn't come with a pin to connect the steering wheel controls, so I had to order a second harness so I have the extra pin I need.
I ordered the iPhone mount, but do really was to plug in two cables every time I get in the car, so I figured I could just use a Lightning to HDMI adaptor and Audio de-embedder that I have on the shelf. Then I can plug into the AUX in on the 800PRS. Of course, I then started wondering about the quality of the DAC in the $15 de-embedder when I realized I have a REALLY good DAC in the APL1 I'm currently not using.
So the plan is to go from the iPhone, to HIDMI, to digital coax into the APL1 and analog out into the 800PRS. It should be fun to see how it all works out.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I mocked up my current CD2 Comps on the big bodies today. The driver side almost fits and wouldn't need much work. The passenger side isn't even close. It's funny how big they look compared to the car.
http://i.imgur.com/dvFeHGqh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1LS19lTh.jpg
I've contacted Eric to see if he can make a straight entry body that might work. Even if he can, the driver needs to be less than 2.75 inches deep to fit between the blower motor and sheet metal.
On the plus side, all my wiring showed up and I can get to sorting that out. Also, my phone mount showed up:
http://i.imgur.com/OX7BkiFh.jpg
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Do they fit if you flip them so the driver is facing down?
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Wouldn't that flip the dispersion angle of the horns?
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
You'd also have to switch sides. So the horn that goes on the left with the driver facing up would now go on the right with the driver facing down and same for the other side.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Flipping the horns over, and swapping side doesn't effect the dispersion, I ran them motors down in Ol Smokey for quite some time. The problem with that is a few things, on the driver side, the dead pedal will be in the way, and it doesn't leave much room to operate the clutch. This car is comically small. The problem is worse on the passenger side. because of the blower motor the horn will have to be about an inch lower than the lip of the dash. With the motor compression driver hanging down it will take up a serious amount of foot room.
I did ask Eric about the straight entry full-size horns, and he can still make them. If they will work will just depend on how deep his current drivers are, and the mounting surface angle relative to the face of the horn.
I ddi just stumble upon this picture:
http://i.imgur.com/5x6AB3uh.png
Notice the two different angles on the mini horn bodies? If Eric still make the one with the mounting surface 90º to the face of the horn, then that might be the solution to my problems. I guess I need to ask about that. Then the only real problem might be the vertical mounting tabs, but again, that depends on the depth of the driver.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I have some Eton Symphony 8-472 that play 1200Hz and down with no problems :thumbup:
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chithead
I have some Eton Symphony 8-472 that play 1200Hz and down with no problems :thumbup:
That's an interesting driver and just went on my short list!
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I second the idea of 8s. The tymphany tweeters that PE had for 15$ were very nice and smooth and played low. Just a thought.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I have a pair of JL 8IB4's. PM me if interested, check classifieds
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cadaver
I second the idea of 8s. The tymphany tweeters that PE had for 15$ were very nice and smooth and played low. Just a thought.
Oh, there WILL be 8's, and I'm a horn guy through and through, so there WILL be horns too. The only real question is, will I have a 3-way with a more subwoofer like 8, or a 2-way with an 8 that can be a mid and a sub at the same time. I'd like to go the 2-way route if I can get good results that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hic
I have a pair of JL 8IB4's. PM me if interested, check classifieds
Those look interesting. Will they play well up to, 1500-ish?
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I talked to Eric today, and it looks like the CD2 Mini body is the way to go, so I'll be buying a set of those with his current drivers.
A bunch of stuff arrived today, so I got to work, but not before grabbing this picture and over editing it :p :
http://i.imgur.com/7Mayr8th.jpg
I'm not sure if the Miata makes the Bronco look big, or if the Bronco makes the Miata look small. :D
The 800PRS mounted in the dash kit:
http://i.imgur.com/aLtlyPrh.jpg
Below it is a Voltage Gauge, USB charging ports and a 12V power outlet. The 12V power outlet will get constant power so that when I park for long periods of time I can throw one of my solar panels on the dash to maintain the battery.
http://i.imgur.com/g5u5uSKh.jpg
I made up the little textured ABS piece and used CA glue to mount it to the dash kit. I haven't used CA glue before, damn that stuff is impressive!
After getting the physical fit down, I fired up the soldering iron:
http://i.imgur.com/SaocEhVh.jpg
Here we have the 800PRS, APL1, Steering wheel control interface, HDMI audio de-embedder and Lightning to HDMI dongle. I also have an extra 12V power outlet that has a Scosche dual USB plug in it, both ports are high current. One port to charge my phone, the other is to power the HDMI audio de-embedder.
And last, I reclaimed some old RCA connectors off of some older custom cables and made some new ones for this project. One is the digital for into the APL1, and the other two are for analog out the the APL1 and into the 800PRS.
http://i.imgur.com/pX7E2egh.jpg
Tomorrow my new steering wheel and brake switch should arrive. It should be a big day for the new ride. :)
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Scott Buwalda used a pair of these in his front doors once. Not sure of top end on these for midbass
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
How high they play is very critical for my situation. I know the current ZR800's can't cut it in a 2-way setup.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Shouldn't be too hard to look em up, Scott liked winning.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I quickly found the owners manual, but it doesn't say anything about the frequency response.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I would ask Eric what he has found that plays the frequencies not covered by his mini-horns , possibly a pro mid or a full range 8 inch crossed @ 1500 hZ .
The Eton 8-412/c8/32 Hex Symphony II woofer fills the bill in a 1.4 cu ft enclosure W/some acousti-fil , I used WinISD to model it *
Top end says 2000 hz on it !
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hic
I would ask Eric what he has found that plays the frequencies not covered by his mini-horns , possibly a pro mid or a full range 8 inch crossed @ 1500 hZ .
The Eton 8-412/c8/32 Hex Symphony II woofer fills the bill in a 1.4 cu ft enclosure W/some acousti-fil , I used WinISD to model it *
Top end says 2000 hz on it !
I spent a lot of time looking up old posts from Eric and others in the HLCD forum on DIYMA and every single one assumes that subs will be used, so people are looking to high pass around 70-80 on their midbass drivers. After opening up a door today I found that isolating a 2.5" mid from the midbass will be trivial, so I think a 3-way might be the way to go. How would your JL drivers do on 75 watts each?
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UPDATE:
Lets start with a look at the factory steering wheel and radio:
http://i.imgur.com/V1MkHMJh.jpg
The first thing I did was install the cruise control components. On the left is the non-cruise brake switch, and on the right is the cruise switch. If you don't mind laying with your back over the door sill, you can swap these parts without tools. All 2009-2015 cars have the same plugs and wiring, so the new switch plugs right in.
http://i.imgur.com/TQfx78Bh.jpg
Next up is the steering wheel. I started by removing the stock wheel:
http://i.imgur.com/bTmXDYth.jpg
That is pretty straight forward. Next I needed to connect the horn to the new wheel, the plugs are different. I dipped into my weatherpack kit and used a single pin connector:
http://i.imgur.com/UAEIKEFh.jpg
Next is to torque down the new wheel and plug in the wiring. The plug you need is already installed and has all the proper wiring.
http://i.imgur.com/qoVtpUJh.jpg
Install the airbag/horn assembly and you are set. A quick test drive proved that the cruise and radio controls work! It took less than an hour, including test drive.
Next up is the radio. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to figure out where to stuff the APL1, I'm not used to having so little extra space. I wound up stuffing it under the carpet on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel. I hope it doesn't get too hot! In this pic you can just barely see the RCA connectors facing up, and the HDMI audio de-embedder on top of the transmission tunnel:
http://i.imgur.com/ysJgFlCh.jpg
I was able to stuff the bulk of the new wiring harness in a hole between the center stack and glove box then pop the head unit in place.
http://i.imgur.com/D4rXCa1h.jpg
Before buttoning everything up I tested it. The steering wheel controls worked right away, the gauges and power ports all work right. But the left door wasn't making any sound, grrr. I spent way too long poking around trying to find the problem only to eventually find that it was a pin on the Metra harness that was in the wrong hole. I fixed that and was good to go!
With that fixed I buttoned it up, tested everything again only to find that I had forgotten to plug the HVAC controls back in. I was chasing the sun at this point but took it apart again and putting it back together and I was good to go! Here is a crappy shot of it all lit up:
http://i.imgur.com/kFRhKK2h.jpg
I'll get a better shot tomorrow. And yes, I put the shift knob back on.
I was lucky that the voltage gauge matched the dash lighting perfectly, now I just need to figure out how to change the head unit color to match. Anyone know how to do this?
Without any tuning at all, just a 6db high pass at 50hz, it already sounds MUCH better than the factory radio, especially when turning it up. My only problem is that the APL1 is clipping the inputs on the 800PRS on some songs. I'll spend some time with REW and APL Workshop tomorrow to see what kind of tune I can get out of the stock speaker setup.
Somehow while climbing around in the car I managed to shatter my phone screen while it was in my pocket. I ordered a new screen from ifixit.com and should have it all fixed up on Tuesday. I'm glad it didn't happen while I was on the road! Unfortunately, that just took up a bunch of money I could have used on the new horns. :mad:
I'm only home for one more week before the golf season picks back up, and it starts with a complex show that I need to spend a few days next week prepping. I won't have more than a couple days off until March, I guess that gives me plenty of time to figure out what I'll do with the doors :p
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
75 watts will make em sing.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Great work. And I love the way you are using factory options that your car was missing.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ben54b
Great work. And I love the way you are using factory options that your car was missing.
Thanks man! I want this to be a totally different style of build than my Bronco.
I finally got some time to play with my APL1 and wow does it make a difference! More on that later...
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
How about this for a ten minute tune on stock speakers with the stock passive crossover(cap):
Left:
http://i.imgur.com/YJo2BH3h.png
Right:
http://i.imgur.com/trjposjh.png
:D It sounds great!
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I had a similar experience after installing an aftermarket hu and using it's internal dsp to tune the stock speakes... I could not believe how much better it sounded.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I've never been happy with any of the autotune functions I've used before. The last time I used it on my 800PRS it gave me a hollow tune that just sounded off. but you have me curious now, so I might have to see what it does with my APL1 on a flat tune, then measure it with APL workshop.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
No autotune on my Alpine... Just TA & 9 band PEQ that I set up with a old handheld RTA and the built in Xover HP 24db/oct at 30hz.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
When top is down the JL's will out perform the Eton's on lows !
Decisions , decisions - the JL IB's will give you a strong low end , when going infinite baffle , mechanical excursion is a concern -vs- an enclosure where power is a concern.
The Eton's can cover the frequencies you have mentioned.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I'll have to agree, kind of ^^^
Have heard the JL IB 8" in a Dodge Ram before, and wholly smokes, did they sound good. Very very nice. Paired with a 13TW5 in a center console enclosure, you couldn't ask for much more output.
The Eton's I'm using, they can almost match those IB I heard in output on the low end, but... roll the windows down, and poof, all gone. Have been researching building enclosures into the doors of the Challenger to hopefully keep the same output whether windows are up, or down.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I don't want to build enclosures, I don't want this car to take too much time form the Bronco. :-)
Eric says not to do the 3-way, so I just asked for his input on the JL's. If he thinks they'll work well, then I'll take em and give them 150 watts each. :-)
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
My friend bought MTX home speakers , now they come only with a woofer and tweeter , ideal for hip-hop / rap , etc..,
Must be a 21rst century thing. Once you drop the top , you will wish you had the JL's ! Seriously !
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hic
Once you drop the top , you will wish you had the JL's ! Seriously !
Only if they pair up with the horns nicely! :-)
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
JL Infinite baffle subwoofers stretch up to excellent midbass , but you should enjoy those Etons or sumptin similar. As long as top is up and drag coefficient keeps wind noise down.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I got home from my first tournament of the year at 3am yesterday, 11 more to go this year!
Today I took a 10mm, 12mm, and 13mm wrench out the the car and adjusted the clutch. It was driving me nuts that it had to be almost at the floor to disengage. I backed the upper stop all the way in, then threaded the master cylinder rod out until I just barely had play in it.
I took the car out for a spin, immediately I was able to back the seat up several notches, making it MUCH more comfortable. Even better is I don;t have to push the clutch nearly as far to change gears! It's made a HUGE difference in shifting, now it's a thoughtless task, and I can shift much quicker!
I then spent some time just driving around with the top down. It's a sunny and chilly day, great for a drive!
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Just after posting that I got off my bum and did some work. I decided that instead of running my IDQ8's (last of the original run) in Ol Smokey, It would be best to use them in the Miata, and then use something else in Ol Smokey.
So I started with the driver door. After looking at how the wiring was run, I figured it might be easiest to just unplug the wires from the door jamb, then remove the plastic inner door panel with all the wires still attached. This turned out to be a stupid move, getting that plug out is a wild pain in the ass. But to make it worse, getting it back in place, and getting the rubber boot back on is just a terrible task. I wound up removing the whole frickin door so I could do it! Just stupid!
After getting everything back to normal, I removed the plastic inner panel. I brought it in and took the dremel to it, First I had to remove the tabs that (I'm guessing) align the Bose 8's:
http://i.imgur.com/C25uEZwh.jpg
Then I cut along the lines for the Bose 8's and mounted the IDQ:
http://i.imgur.com/3ijCIj5h.jpg
Next up I tried to bolt them back in, but it turns out the IDQ's are too deep. Some time ago I had started making HDPE mounting rings for the IDQ's so I just had to finish them. They turned out looking like crap, but they do the job. Here is one mounted up:
http://i.imgur.com/XUJodMlh.jpg
After getting the pair mounted up, I had a listen. They sound good, definitely more low end than the factory speakers, but also a bit of a drop in efficiency. Door rattles will be a problem once I give them some real power.
Tomorrow I'll retune with the APL and have another listen.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
I did a couple quick tunes with the APL stuff today, one for the top up, and one for the top down. Here are a couple graphs, the green line is the response, the other is the target.
Top and windows up frequency response:
http://i.imgur.com/hesXkHrh.png
Top and windows down frequency response:
http://i.imgur.com/ivavrfyh.png
I'm not sure what is going on at the very top end, but I'm not too worried because I'll be replacing those drivers and going full active when I get home from my next trip. The left tweeter does sound a bit strained at times, so it's a good thing it'll be unplugged soon.
Top and windows up TDA:
http://i.imgur.com/fmOaggwh.png
Top and windows down TDA:
http://i.imgur.com/wQsx7mQh.png
Here you can REALLY see the effects of reflection in the car! There is quite a bit of difference between the top up and down.
I leave for a long work trip on Tuesday, when I get back I'll have my new horns to install and will switch the 800PRS over to Network Mode. I'll also have the time to install an amp. Then I'll actually be able to dial in TA, set the levels properly and so on. I should be mostly done with the audio stuff on this car and turn my attention back to Ol Smokey.
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
About 2/3 [ 36 - 24 = 12 ]
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Re: 2010 MX-5 / Miata Build
Today I did something I haven't done in ages, a wash, claybar, and wax. All the cars I've had for the last 15 years had paint that was too far gone to really worry about it. Thank goodness it's a small car!
Also, my new wiper switch showed up, this is the stock one:
http://i.imgur.com/ZdcRwzyh.jpg
And the new one:
http://i.imgur.com/1uLxcYhh.jpg
For some reason the Miata didn't come with variable intermittent wipers. However, the RX8 did have the option and the switch is compatible with the Miata, no other changes need to be made to get this option functioning. It was $35, including shipping, and took less than 10 minutes to swap out.